Laminated softwood bench tops.

[mtr1]

The weird thing about my set up now is, I use a cabinetmakers bench as a tool shelf/junk pile with a bit ( and I mean a bit) of space around the vice, and a 8x4 setting out bench as my work bench (made from pine and mdf). I just prefer the size I think, I might even get rid of the bench and install a shelf in its place :shock: I think a softwood laminated top would be more than adequate, I used reclaimed hardwood on mine at the time, because that was available cheap.

 

[Paul Chapman]

But is it a practical bench? I was thinking of those massive pieces of oak being joined with such difficulty

Not difficult, only heavy. And how do you or anyone else on here know whether it's a practical bench when we have no idea who the customer is?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul, I think that any comments related to these particular oak benches concern cost, sourcing of the oak, the weight and size of the timber components, the space needed to build it and perhaps, for some, the necessary building skills. A simple softwood bench is more than practical for most.
I think you have a similar bench to the oak examples and fair play to you but for many, myself included, it's not a realistic or indeed a necessary proposition.

Noel,

The reason for my comments was that Jacob drew attention to the bench Richard Maguire is making for a customer and, in his usual manner, tried to ridicule it. Jacob knows nothing about the end use of the bench or about the person for whom it is being built. It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, which is about building inexpensive benches from soft wood.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[GazPal]

But is it a practical bench? I was thinking of those massive pieces of oak being joined with such difficulty

Not difficult, only heavy. And how do you or anyone else on here know whether it's a practical bench when we have no idea who the customer is?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I'd give my eye teeth for one, but honestly couldn't justify the cost of having one made, although we did have very similar benches in my family's workshops dating from the early Georgian period. Kudos to anyone investing in such a bench, they are great to work from, but such examples tend to be out of reach for most and the stuff of fantasy for others in much the same way as ownership of their favourite handplane or ............... (Insert particular tool or workpiece).

-------------

I think entry level benches are what they are/can be and deservedly remain either as basic or complex as their makers wish them to be. One example being that far eastern craftsmen work from single beams resting close to the ground.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Something worth bearing in mind when contemplating a bench design and build, or bench buy, is what it is intended to do. A bench is a device for holding workpieces steady at a convenient height to carry out work on them. It's not a showpiece in the way that a dining table or display cabinet is, it's just a functional, no-frills workhorse. (Corollary - if someone wants to make or buy a showpiece bench, that's fine - nothing wrong with that - it's just not absolutely necessary, in the same way that a Ford Mondeo will get you about in just the same way that a Rolls-Royce will. Nice to have a Rolls - and good luck to those who do - but not 'necessary'.)

For many of us, fine timbers are expensive. I would happily pay £50 per cubic foot or more for materials for a fine piece to go in the lounge, but paying that for bench material is something I'd baulk at. Even the cheaper hardwoods seem to be around the £25 cu. ft. mark - plus VAT, plus delivery. If you come across some decent hardwood for peanuts, then of course you should use it; but for those of us less fortunate, we use what we can get at a sensible price. When you're an amateur setting up a workshop on a budget, perhaps with a morgage to pay and a young family to feed, surplus pounds might not be easy to find. Tools are not cheap, machinery - even secondhand - even less so.

So, anything that gives a workable bench at minimal cost is worthwhile. Builder's merchants redwood will make a perfectly acceptable bench on a budget - mine has done twenty years service to support that assertion. Later in life, when money isn't so tight, maybe you can do things differently.

For the professional, things are a bit different. The bench will be used far more intensively, week in week out. A hardwood top will wear better. But you'll have to invest capital up front in order to provide the tool for the job. For most of us amateurs, that need doesn't really apply.

 

[GazPal]

I think most here are on the same or adjacent pages in terms of benches and can agree to a point regarding the need to match their bench to the work they expect to produce when working from it.

Another topic and perhaps another thread (Although I think this ties in nicely with bench builds) is matching work holding to the bench. I'm not a fan of leg vise following an incident during which I almost broke a knee bumping into one at work, but do like Record style cast iron vise, with my particular favourite being their #52.1/2 and 53. My vises are the older type of the quick release variety, but plain screw vise are just as serviceable, although a tad slower to work from if producing pieces of varying size/dimensions.

 

[Lons]

I confess to having never made a "proper" bench

My first was from necessity a cheapo out of some surplus 4x4 posts, 4x2 framing and a top out of some excellent scrounged scaffold boards 9" wide and 3" thick. With an old Record vice fitted, it served well for many years. It wasn't pretty but did the job and that's the important thing. Even the humble B&D workmate has it's place or an old kitchen table if it starts people on the road to more ambitious things.

I later aquired an old college bench with a beech top. Single sided, small and battered but solid as a rock and suits me fine.
I would like to make a decent bench though just for the satisfaction it would give me.

Bob

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Richard clearly feels he has too many toes :shock:

Certainly can't fault the build quality - just perhaps more than needed if building oneself to use for a job of work.

He does offer a bench with an apron - the Empire

 

[Jacob]

........
He does offer a bench with an apron - the Empire

A proper bench! All it needs is a Record 53 (PS and a well) and we are back to reality!

.... is inspired by a workbench that formed the backbone of English woodworking for centuries & yet sadly began to disappear with the age of industry. This workbench is a testament to the phrase ‘less is more’ and demonstrates just how efficient simplicity can be.

It hasn't disappeared at all - it's still the standard most common pattern. So I suppose Sellers is also "inspired" etc.
I don't agree that Traditionally the bench would have been light, - they were often heavy (mine is) and 3" beams is the norm
I absolutely agree with : ‘less is more’ ... demonstrates just how efficient simplicity can be. but it's often a difficult concept to sell. Hence the fussiness of so many of the alternatives.
It's very cheap if hand made.

 

[bugbear]

Bugbear- I remember that bench when the their site was live. Wonder if the kid has still an interest in WW?

Nah - he's just a "fashion victim".

BugBear

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

As far as the luxury benches only being something professionals can justify is not necessarily true. In my experience it is the wealthy amateurs who spend a fortune on benches and tools. Professional only means that a person earns their keep from doing the thing and so they don't usually put more money into the tools and workshop than they really need too. That would mean that a luxury hardwood workbench would be low on the list of priorities. But if you are a merchant banker or made your millions in IT then you might not want a 200 quid self built bench, you would want the very 'best' in benches and so a couple of thousand pounds might be just the ticket.
I could be wrong of course, I have been before...

 

[marcros]

Dont be fooled, it isnt just the merchant bankers spending this money on a bench. Some people with spare cash choose to spend it on a car, others on holidays, golf clubs, computers, photography equipment etc. A thousand pound bench is the price of a good quality table saw and will last for many many years..

 

[Jacob]

I was talking to an ex restorer who used to work for a well known firm restoring and doing new work. He says the benches were basically the familiar standard pattern (I suppose you could call them the British bench or simplified Nicholson) but were largely decrepit - ancient but endlessly repaired on the cheap, sometimes with new tops but with dexion and chipboard bodge repairs in other parts. Record vices. Non of them would have cost more than £200 to make, plus the vice being the costliest bit. He's been around a bit but had never seen the "continental" style anywhere, or a tail vice etc etc..
I think that would be fairly typical.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jacob

I see you are still comparing us armatures to professionals.

Pete

 

[GazPal]

As far as the luxury benches only being something professionals can justify is not necessarily true. In my experience it is the wealthy amateurs who spend a fortune on benches and tools. Professional only means that a person earns their keep from doing the thing and so they don't usually put more money into the tools and workshop than they really need too. That would mean that a luxury hardwood workbench would be low on the list of priorities. But if you are a merchant banker or made your millions in IT then you might not want a 200 quid self built bench, you would want the very 'best' in benches and so a couple of thousand pounds might be just the ticket.
I could be wrong of course, I have been before...

I know a few professionals willing to pay an arm and leg for extremely high grade equipment due to their passion for both occupation and good tools. I certainly agree in terms of how one justifies purchases on both professional and amateur levels and if you have the pennies for a top end bench why not have one

Funny thing is I always enjoyed making my own, but think it bears directly on how I was brought into the trade in a fairly old fashioned way.

 

[Mr Maguire]

Hi All,

Workbench design always seems to be a touchy subject amongst woodworkers so it never surprises me when a discussed becomes a bit heated. I think some people must get on so well with their own bench that they believe everyone else has it wrong but as many people have pointed out there really isn’t a right or wrong design its more about bring fit for the intended use. I’ve been watching Paul Seller’s build with great interest and must say what a fantastic job he’s doing at enabling woodworkers to get to grips with a bench build regardless of their skill or equipment. Any encouragement to get started in or learn more about the craft has to be positive.
Should a workbench have aprons? Well to dictate one way or the other would be a bit like saying we should all use wooden planes or build the same style of furniture. I personally love working of a bench with deep aprons but don’t often use a tail vice and if I did would find them very awkward and annoying if I was pushing up bench dogs frequently. It’s fascinating to see people’s different takes on workbench design and experienced woodworkers will often have tweaks unique to themselves where they’ve found a solution that works perfectly just for them and their methods.

Jacob - With regards to your comment, “ You get things like that fantasy wood work bench .. Which was verging on the insane.” this is a little strong don’t you think? But maybe you feel that all luxuries in life are insane? Also bear in mind that whilst being a luxury this bench is designed entirely around function and although handmade you can buy a mass produced bench from Axminster for the same price. I don’t know what you do for a living but I’m sure you work very hard and so would be gutted should your work get publicly slatted without just reason. Wouldn’t it be tragic if makers in all fields and crafts stopped because the country was simply too ignorant for them? I take it you’re not one to say “they don’t make them like they used to”!

Richard

 

[Jacob]

....
Jacob - With regards to your comment, “ You get things like that fantasy wood work bench .. Which was verging on the insane.” this is a little strong don’t you think?

OK, OTT then! Not a lot in it.

But maybe you feel that all luxuries in life are insane?

No

Also bear in mind that whilst being a luxury this bench is designed entirely around function

What function would require such a heavy bench? You could stand a traction engine on it. Does your client make traction engines? Surely the objective is just "luxury"

... would be gutted should your work get publicly slatted without just reason

.Wasn't publicly "slatted" at all, you are being just a little oversensitive.

Just Wouldn’t it be tragic if makers in all fields and crafts stopped because the country was simply too ignorant for them?

What has ignorance got to do with it?

I take it you’re not one to say “they don’t make them like they used to”!

Richard

I don't think they ever made them quite as massive as yours! Good luck to you if you can sell them but the thread is about practical benches. It seems that a lot of people want almost anything rather than the traditional bench and the more complicated the offering the more they like it.
But as you said yourself apropos your ‘Empire’ - inspired by a workbench that formed the backbone of English woodworking for centuries ...... This workbench is a testament to the phrase ‘less is more’ and demonstrates just how efficient simplicity can be.‘less is more’ and demonstrates just how efficient simplicity can be" - I'm behind you on all that, but I'd want a well in the "Empire"!

Public health warning - not your fault Mr M, but this thread is being trolled already and will probably go rapidly downhill. Pity really.

 

[DTR]

Slightly off-topic, but a related question: In a bench with an underframe supporting the top (for example, Chris Schwarz's "Nicholson" and I suspect Richard Maguire's "Empire"), how is movement of the top dealt with? In my own bench the top is fixed at the front, and any movement is absorbed by the tool well.

 

[Jacob]

Slightly off-topic, but a related question: In a bench with an underframe supporting the top (for example, Chris Schwarz's "Nicholson" and I suspect Richard Maguire's "Empire"), how is movement of the top dealt with? In my own bench the top is fixed at the front, and any movement is absorbed by the tool well.

I think it'd be a problem. A well makes it easy to just whip off a few mm to bring the beam or beams into line. If I was going to join massive timbers like Mr Maguire's I'd do it the easy way with steel rod through with nuts on threaded ends. You could then tighten/loosen or separate the pieces for planing, if necessary.

 

[Mr Maguire]

Hi DTR,

Tool wells are 'reletively' new in English benches so on a lot of the ones I've seen the movement has to be allowed for out the back of the bench. So the front is fixed firm to the front apron and the expansion is allowed for over the top of the rear apron so it isn't fixed firmly at that point and many didn't have a rear apron at all.
I've taken a very different approach with my design, so the function is based on the 'English' bench however the construction is very different. The tops are thicker than the majority which means it can support itself without having to have internal splines. The tops are also built in two sections and so I fix them firmly at both the front and the back sending the expansion to the middle of the bench where there is a gap for a flip stop. The fit of the stop will vary through the seasons but will always function.

Richard

 

[No skills]

This thread is quite interesting to me, hope it can be nudged back on course. Are there any 'show your workbench' threads on this forum? would be interesting to see what people are using.