Krenov book arrived

[Anonymous]

Interesting that the people that slag Krenov off here are the 'pro' woodworkers of this forum.

He is after all a very rich and succesful furniture maker himself...

 

[ByronBlack]

Jake, thanks for noticing that - it's a mis-type by me.. i'll correct that.

 

[ByronBlack]

No i feel the opposite, their environment feels sterile it just doesn't seem like the same world. The information is very good its just it doesn't excite me.
Owen

I might be being dim, if so I apologise, I don't understand what you mean by their 'environment' being sterile?

What is it that you dont find exciting about them?

I get excited when I can make a plane work well, or when I read a method on how to setup a machine correctly and they lead to results. I've tried doing things a certain way from various books, but the vagueness always leads to frustration, whereas I think David's articles are comprehensive enough and fundamental enough that it allows me to get results that i've been unable to achieve elsewhere. This of course is not to say that there aren't a myriad of other ways of achieving a result.

This also ties in with Krenov, because his outlook is unique and his methods not orthodox it has allowed me to think outside of the norm and this does excite me.

 

[Paul Chapman]

He is after all a very rich and succesful furniture maker himself...

He who laughs last........ :lol: :lol: :lol:

Perhaps he's not such an old twerp after all 8) 8)

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting that the people that slag Krenov off here are the 'pro' woodworkers of this forum.

He is after all a very rich and succesful furniture maker himself...

Tut tut tTony - personal remarks, and you a moderator :roll:
I take it that in your world you admire all who earn more than yourself and despise all who don't. :lol:
Maybe it's more to do with 'pro' woodworkers knowing more about woodwork than amateurs.
Interesting interview with Jim lad here.
What do you make of this?

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Maybe it's more to do with 'pro' woodworkers knowing more about woodwork than amateurs.

You're coming out with some real corkers today! Pro/Amateur are just status' not a ranking of an individuals knowledge on a subject.

Can you answer the questions that I posed to you earlier in the thread? I'm interested in your replies.

 

[Corset]

Its a difficult one to explain excitement, i come from a science degree and i left it because i was rubbish at it and i didn't like the clinical nature and obsessive precision. The more things tend towards the mark of perfection sometimes the less can be seen of the maker and for ME it leaves me a bit cold.
In addition i love tools and having them sharp but ultimately i really like making cabinets et al. Worrying about the perfect angle and the perfect joint is for me a bit of a distraction.
In terms of enthusiam i quite like the American workshop he is very very very twee but he really does love what he does and the stuff he does is good enough to think i can try that and maybe do a little better. I like the attitude of a couple of strokes here and it looks ok, as opposed to a 6 strokes on the left 6 on right and then a 0.5% degree etc it just leaves me cold. I always think furniture, including studio stuff (which i like most) looks best when its had some use and its had some wear on the handles etc. Stuff that you can't touch is pointless the tactile nature of wood is the draw for me.
Like tools collection without use is no fun for me!
Not sure if that will clear it up??
Owen

 

[ByronBlack]

Owen, point well made, I think I get the gist of what you are saying. I try to put the two area's (tool technique/method and woodworking) in a seperate place. I like the precision of getting the tools tuned/sharp so that it allows me to work the wood effectively, but i'm not obsessive when it comes to the actual wood working - or atleast I try not to be. I'm probably more obsessive than I wish I was, but for me, reading Krenov gave me that attitude/thought process whatever you want to call it to be able to be more freeform.

Now this is all just theory at the moment as i've yet to start building the items that i've designed/dreamed up, but I itend to have a more flexible approach once i'm in a position to start work.

The american workshop is quite interesting - ive seen a few episodes of that, but I find with all the interviews and other bits and pieces that he does during the episode alot of his technique becomes quite vaque, but he certainly has a passion for his craft - I also like his mix of handtools and powertools, he seems to promote a good balance.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it that in your world you admire all who earn more than yourself and despise all who don't. :lol:

cheers
Jacob

I have not stated anywhere that I admire my Krenov (why do you think I do? because I question your attack on a man who does not visit the forum and so cannot defend himself?).
Nor have I stated that I despise anyone.

My comment was simply to say that you seem to have a closed mind masquerading as an open mind - you had decided to dislike the book before opening it in my opinion (formed from the previous thread).

Tut tut tTony - personal remarks, and you a moderator

No. Not a personal remark at all, simply a statement of fact.

 

[Pete W]

Jacob,

Krenov's CV is here:
http://www.furnituresociety.org/awards/ ... rencv.html

To a non-professional like myself, it looks pretty impressive.

Not everyone likes his designs, and that's perfectly OK. But I don't know why you feel you have to rubbish his training and his ability.

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

snip
Can you answer the questions that I posed to you earlier in the thread? I'm interested in your replies.

What, about Jim lad's crap doors?
They are basically a bodge, done in the way I would have done them before I found out how to do them properly. Takes one to spot one!
He's done the corners with a very simple bridle joint.
This is a weak joint and depends very much on glue power, having little strength of its own.
It's untidy with a lot of end grain showing at each corner whichever way round you look at it.
He has slotted the rails but stopped within the tenon, leaving a bit of semi detached tenon, for no apparent reason. This may be because he appears to be slotting after having cut out the tenons, instead of before which is much easier.
He has turned the doors with rails going vertically. No rule against this except that a normal vertical stile with only discrete haunched mortice ends visible, is much neater and more stable.
Non of this is "evolution" - it's a bodge. The "normal" way (haunched mortice and tenon) is pretty well universal not just out of inertia and habit, but because it is the best way, tried and tested.
He advises cutting to length before glueing up. This again is not the proper way - it's much easier to leave tenons a bit over and stiles well over with horns, and to trim back afterwards.
This in turn may be the cause of his mortice prob. Cutting a bridle joint in the end of a stile, with a slot morticer, is a bit difficult as the cut is likely to get coarse at the ends as there is not enough stiffness in the side pieces left. That's one reason for leaving long horns on. Also the slot morticer will leave round ends which he has either got to trim, or trim the tenon to fit. So he's done it with the bandsaw instead.
All in all his knickers are in a right twist.
And his drawers :lol: he does the classic bad detail of slotting the sides instead of inserting a drawer slip.

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Thank you Jacob, you have avoided my questions with the skill of an entry level politician. But atleast you have confirmed resolutely exactly what I think of you and your opinions.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you Jacob, you have avoided my questions with the skill of an entry level politician. But at least you have confirmed resolutely exactly what I think of you and your opinions.

Err - which question are you referring to?
Re " what I think of you and your opinions" I do get a bit brassed off with the way people make personal remarks like this , indirect though it may be. Come on mods!!!!
It'd get seriously tedious if I had to counter every personal remark in kind. Please note that I do not (intentionally) make personal remarks myself. Being critical about high profile figures like JK is not the same thing at all.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Johnboy]

I have to agree with Jacob here, I find many of the replies to his posts downright rude. He may state his opinions a bit bluntly for some people but he is just as entitled to his opinions as anyone else.

John

 

[Corset]

I am a little confused here, that was a pretty complete answer wasn't it? Am i missing something? This seems a broad discussion on techniques isn't it?
Owen

 

[ByronBlack]

Snip:
I do get a bit brassed off with the way people make personal remarks like this , indirect though it may be. Come on mods!!!!

Snip:
Being critical about high profile figures like JK is not the same thing at all.

cheers
Jacob

No - not the same at all Jacob your exactly right, he hasn't got the right of reply.

Question 1:
Does he actually state that he doesn't (know how to make a panel door) or are you just guessing that he doesn't know based on his different style of panel door.

Question 2:
You appear to have a black and white attitude towards furniture making. I.e if it's not done in the 'traditional' (I don't know what that means anyway) way according to your own beliefs, then its wrong or not effective. Surely thats not what you really think is it?

Question 3:
Would you say the same things in regards to furniture making from other cultures that don't have our traditions? I'm thinking of Japanese carpentry (and furniture making) here specifically, they seem to have a lot of different ways of working to us, and wondered whether you would consider their work in-tune with your own 'traditional' views.

And another that wasn't on the previous thread - this is just so that we can all qualify your opinions: Have you a history of fine cabinet making?

(John - where are the rude replies? What makes one persons opinion rude, and anothers 'blunt' - please don't muddy the waters and turn this into another off-topic personal argument).

 

[tim]

This is getting interesting!

There is of course more than one way to skin a cat. I like some of the stuff Krenov makes and am less excited by others.

The differences between making styles is also interesting and possibly highlights the blurring between art and manufacture in furniture making.

Tony, forgive me but there are a couple of points that you have made that I must take issue with:

I have not stated anywhere that I admire my Krenov (why do you think I do? because I question your attack on a man who does not visit the forum and so cannot defend himself?).

Not sure I agree with your position here. Does that mean that we shouldn't offer a negative view of Chippendale's work or that on physics forums no one has a go at Einstein?

The guy has published his book and received payment for it. The reader is entitled to voice his opinion and I would suggest that here is as good a place as any.

Interesting that the people that slag Krenov off here are the 'pro' woodworkers of this forum.

Easy now - one pro has offered a negative view. Perhaps a touch of hyperbole here?


Cheers

Tim

 

[Paul Chapman]

Poor old Krenov - I wonder if he realises how much trouble he's caused :roll: He probably started life as a humble DIYer who thought he'd knock up a couple of cabinets to keep the wife off his back. Now he has half the woodworking community gunning for him. Give the old boy a break :wink: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jake]

No - not the same at all Jacob your exactly right, he hasn't got the right of reply.

So anyone who isn't a contributing member of the forum has sacred cow status?

 

[Johnboy]

Good points Tim.

Byron, there is a big difference between a blunt statement and being rude. I find your statement "But at least you have confirmed resolutely exactly what I think of you and your opinions." definitely falls into the rude category and I think it was uncalled for.

John