Kity Combination machine CK26?

[colsy_85]

Hello everyone,
I have just bought a Kity combination machine, having spent a while looking at google images, I think it's a CK26. The machine on the trailer is mine, The other two machines that look near identical. The one without slot morticer attached has what looks like identical set up to mine (in bits now to offload from my truck!) The one with the morticer assembled looks like I guess mine would look if I got the slot morticer set-up mounted which I do not believe it ever has been. Mine has the 636 planer, 652 morticer and belt driven spindle, 628 molder with 30mm spindle and what I think is the 617 table saw. Although there is no name plate on the saw. The single motor with 125mm diameter pulley for planer and 85mm pulley for molder and saw is 1.5kW. I have a few q's:

Is this set-up a CK26 machine?

Typically what length belt would drive the slot morticer? Although I guess the same belt as the saw would work on the 45mm step down pulley from the saw side of the motor (speed would be about 2700rpm)? Just to help me establish where Kity intended it to go on the table.

The saw blade is not so good. I can see the saw blade is labled as 220mm (measures 216mm) and the bore measures 15mm. I know Axminster does a step down ring for 30mm to 15mm so I'll get a few...while I'm shopping, are the Axminster premium tct blades any good? I was considering the 48t as a good all rounder, i'll be ripping down some Acoya and some Iroko. What other blades should I consider?

What length should the planer drive belt be? The machine came with a 710mm drive belt, worn in width to about 8/9mm not uniform (bad machine placement relative to motor I'm guessing) but winess marks on pulleys suggest a 15mm wide belt. The 710mm x6mm wide feed belt is OK. The planer must have been in the wrong position because with a 710mm drive belt, the belt isn't long enough (measuring with string would suggest a 725mm belt would work)...I can move the planer to suit the 710 belt no problem...if that's the correct belt?

What length should the molder belt be? The machine came with a 1060mm belt hanging off the molder spindle but again, the belt wasn't long enough with where the molder was mounted. The saw drive belt seems to fit well though, 1100mm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be able to position the molder to work with the 1060 belt without drilling new holes in the table.

The previous owner had passed and his daughter who was the seller didn't know how to use anything other than the saw (belted correctly) and I suspect someone had been messing with the belts and setup of machines between him passing and the sale.

It needs a bit of tlc but everything appears to be reasonably free moving, true and straight. Looking forward to getting it going.

Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheers,
Colin.

 

[colsy_85]

Oh, and if I'm buying cutters for the molder, do I need 40mmx4mm euro cutters? Like what's for sale here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28346271...s=ispr=1&amdata=enc:1RNrPorImSfG1oO2eweqKTw26
A pic of my block us attached.
Cheers,
Colin.

 

[Jameshow]

Could you measure it with some cheap blue rope? Set the adjustment to minimum and see how you go?

What are the sizes of the tools I'm guessing 8"saw 6" PT ???

Can they be used on one side apart from the morticer??

Ideal for the smaller workshop.

Would it be too high to have a plywood assembly table / hood over the top?!

 

[colsy_85]

Hi Jameshow,

Thanks for the reply.

That's what I would do if I cannot get anymore info on the belts. Would need to drill some more holes for the molder though.

PT, 260mm, saw 70mm.

Saw has left and right sideways in the bed, moulder is plain bed - no slideway on the one I have unfortunatley so I'll make up a jig/second bed if I need to.

Good idea with the hood/assembly table. I have plenty of room in my worlshop though, central 8'x4' bench, worktops to both sides. The Kity will be at the end of the 8'x4' central bench.
Cheers,
Colin.

 

[Jameshow]

Hi Jameshow,

Thanks for the reply.

That's what I would do if I cannot get anymore info on the belts. Would need to drill some more holes for the molder though.

PT, 260mm, saw 70mm.

Saw has left and right sideways in the bed, moulder is plain bed - no slideway on the one I have unfortunatley so I'll make up a jig/second bed if I need to.

Good idea with the hood/assembly table. I have plenty of room in my worlshop though, central 8'x4' bench, worktops to both sides. The Kity will be at the end of the 8'x4' central bench.
Cheers,
Colin.

It would just about fill the empty space in my workshop! Benches to 2 sides lathe / pillar drill to other side and double doors to 4th side!

 

[clogs]

If it were mine I'd do a rough assembly on the trailer and head for CAR PARTS STORE.....or bearing factors.....
then u can try all the belts to get the right size....
It wasn't this machine but I did rebuild a few in France that had single motors....They got an extra motor and switch gear normally...much nicer to use than moving belts...
there was one that got 2 extra motors.... planer and spindle were seperated drive wise and the saw got the original drive.....
made using and selling it so easy...

 

[colsy_85]

Hi Clogs, thanks. I have been thinking a second motor would make life easier, interesting to hear it was a factory option. I could move the saw and spindle away from the planer to create the space needed to get a second motor pulley where it needs to be. Loosing the planer pulley from the existing motor (assuming it can be removed....seen a bolt and washer there) will help lower the machines inertia to improve start-up and also running torque too...Did the machines you mention have redundant pulleys or were they removed?

 

[Lons]

Hi Colin

I'm away at the minute and have iffy wifi so have just seen your post. If you look at the following thread I posted some info and listed what each of the older machine combinations were designated. Identifying spare bits! also posted a pic of the CK26 sheet.
regards
Bob

 

[colsy_85]

Hello Bob,
Thanks for the reply. The only difference I can see between mine and the data sheet for the CK26 image is the sliding bars on the saw (mine doesn't have bars) and the morticer is fitted...mine isn't yet. ..could mine possibly be a K7040? I have my machine back together and fully operable now. Need to get some inlay plates profiled for the moulder bed, only have one and it's too small for the block even with rebate knives only. To say a lot of the machine elements are pressed metal, Kity have made a reasonably straight and true machine. Infeed bed on planer is not paraplanar to outfeed, out by 1mm over length. No apparent adjustment, intend to put some 0.25 shim under one end of the slide bars of the infeed. This is a bit confusing...must have been like this since new. Anyone adjusted the planer bed sides on here?
Cheere,
Colin.

 

[Lons]

Hi Colin
It looks like a CK26 or possibly even direct drive, not easy to see from those 2 pics, whichever it looks in great condition for it's age and will serve you well for a very long time.
If you send me a pm with your email address I'll send you some info on the 700 series so you can eliminate that, will probably be of interest anyway. I'll see if I have anything else on the other machines, unfortunately after a house move years ago most of my old catalogues, from the days we used to sell the machines, were stored for a while in an outhouse where they got damaged and thrown out. I always regret that as apart from the Kity stuff I had loads of original Startrite, Wadkin, Elu, DeWalt, and loads more much of which isn't available now.

BTW, the bars supplied with the CK26 were removable and could be fitted to the saw or spindle moulder but they were often left off and lost in use.
The direct drive wasn't supplied with them as standard.

 

[Roche57]

Hi guys, I'm new here so I hope you can help.

I recently purchased a CK26 and now in the process of giving it a full service.
Question 1. All of the belts are worn so need replacing. The current flat belts are easily obtainable of the Internet but before I go ahead and purchase flat belts would polyV be better and can I use them on the existing flat pulleys?
Question 2. I notice that the belts simply go from pulley and there are no belt tensioners, is this right and if not can someone please post some photos of their tensioner setups?

Many thanks

 

[Sideways]

You can't use poly V on the existing pulleys.

Flat belts have the advantage that they are easily slipped on and off the pulleys for changing functions on the CK26, but the pulleys are slightly crowned so the belts will say on and track correctly once they are on.
The machine was designed for flat belts and they will be suitable for the power of the machine.
Poly V belts can transfer a greater power through a narrower pulley but that's all. There is no inherent advantage in trying to modernise the machine.

A slipping belt is a kind of safety clutch. A flat belt will slip more easily than a poly V when overloaded. I'd stick with the flat ones myself.

 

[Roche57]

You can't use poly V on the existing pulleys.

Flat belts have the advantage that they are easily slipped on and off the pulleys for changing functions on the CK26, but the pulleys are slightly crowned so the belts will say on and track correctly once they are on.
The machine was designed for flat belts and they will be suitable for the power of the machine.
Poly V belts can transfer a greater power through a narrower pulley but that's all. There is no inherent advantage in trying to modernise the machine.

A slipping belt is a kind of safety clutch. A flat belt will slip more easily than a poly V when overloaded. I'd stick with the flat ones myself.

Thanks Sideways, that is very good advice. Much appreciated

 

[Sideways]

I've owned 3 Kitys myself in the past. They are a very honest hobby machine and better made than many of the copies that were based on them. I hope yours serves you well.

 

[Roche57]

Hello everyone,
I have just bought a Kity combination machine, having spent a while looking at google images, I think it's a CK26. The machine on the trailer is mine, The other two machines that look near identical. The one without slot morticer attached has what looks like identical set up to mine (in bits now to offload from my truck!) The one with the morticer assembled looks like I guess mine would look if I got the slot morticer set-up mounted which I do not believe it ever has been. Mine has the 636 planer, 652 morticer and belt driven spindle, 628 molder with 30mm spindle and what I think is the 617 table saw. Although there is no name plate on the saw. The single motor with 125mm diameter pulley for planer and 85mm pulley for molder and saw is 1.5kW. I have a few q's:

Is this set-up a CK26 machine?

Typically what length belt would drive the slot morticer? Although I guess the same belt as the saw would work on the 45mm step down pulley from the saw side of the motor (speed would be about 2700rpm)? Just to help me establish where Kity intended it to go on the table.

The saw blade is not so good. I can see the saw blade is labled as 220mm (measures 216mm) and the bore measures 15mm. I know Axminster does a step down ring for 30mm to 15mm so I'll get a few...while I'm shopping, are the Axminster premium tct blades any good? I was considering the 48t as a good all rounder, i'll be ripping down some Acoya and some Iroko. What other blades should I consider?

What length should the planer drive belt be? The machine came with a 710mm drive belt, worn in width to about 8/9mm not uniform (bad machine placement relative to motor I'm guessing) but winess marks on pulleys suggest a 15mm wide belt. The 710mm x6mm wide feed belt is OK. The planer must have been in the wrong position because with a 710mm drive belt, the belt isn't long enough (measuring with string would suggest a 725mm belt would work)...I can move the planer to suit the 710 belt no problem...if that's the correct belt?

What length should the molder belt be? The machine came with a 1060mm belt hanging off the molder spindle but again, the belt wasn't long enough with where the molder was mounted. The saw drive belt seems to fit well though, 1100mm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't be able to position the molder to work with the 1060 belt without drilling new holes in the table.

The previous owner had passed and his daughter who was the seller didn't know how to use anything other than the saw (belted correctly) and I suspect someone had been messing with the belts and setup of machines between him passing and the sale.

It needs a bit of tlc but everything appears to be reasonably free moving, true and straight. Looking forward to getting it going.

Thanks in advance for any replies.
Cheers,
Colin.

Hi Colsy, I hope you got your answer. Your machine looks identical to mine and like you I have spent a lot of time Googling. I have come to the conclusion it is a CK26 - It has a 617 saw, 636 planer, 652 mortiser and a 628 spindle moulder.
I bought it a few months back and currently completely refurbishing mine before I use it. I happy to share / exchange info, experiences and photos if you would like?

Regards Pete

 

[ian33a]

What an interesting thread!

I think I have one too. It comes on a wooden topped table rather than a metal one though. I say "I think" because it was my dad's and we have recently moved it and a lot of other stuff from his place to ours prior to selling his house.

I'm unlikely to keep it because I have most of the functionality that it offers in other tools and machines that I already own - and it takes up quite a lot of space. I would be interested to know how much they cost to buy second hand (PM me if you are happy to tell me) as I need to decide what to do with it. It saddens me to let it go but I am keeping a lot of his stuff and I need to be practical about what is left.

 

[Lons]

For anyone who's interested I posted the following on a previous thread.

For anyone who’s interested the company originated at The Electroli factory in Bisschwiller, France when it started production of small woodworking machines in 1948 and these were launched at trade fairs in 1949 aimed at the perceived niche market between trade and DIY.

In 1960 the trade mark ELECTROLI was discontinued and the Name KITY established so all machines since that date have the Kity brand and at the time we were stocking in the 80s they had extensive distribution across 5 continents including more than 800 distributors in Europe alone.

In the late 70s they were offering all their machines either separately or combinations on a table to customer’s choice, note that these were sometimes made up ad hoc by users at a later date or by sellers on their premises in which case there were some odd arrangements however those sent out from the factory were clearly identifiable and allocated a model number. i.e. early combos were made up from the following machines, note where there is more than one option it usually designates different capacity as with the planer but the moulder model 626 relates to UK guarding spec.

• Base machine table......................700
• Retractable roller unit................ 701
• Flexible shaft ...................................690
• Table saw...........................................617
• Band saw............................................612
• Spindle moulders..........................626 / 627
• Planer/thicknessers.......................635 / 636
• Slot morticer....................................652
• Grinder................................................641
• Planer knife grinder.....................642
• Motor either 1.5hp single phase or 2.0hp 3 phase but others to order were available.
• Lots of accessories including extractor hoses etc with various part numbers

The combinations were designated as follows all on the 700 table and with relevant accessories

• 700 table + 612 = .................................................................................model 7036
• “” + 617 = .................................................................................................................7037
• “” + 617 + 635 + 626 =......................................................................................7040
• “” + 617 + 635 + 626 + 652 = ......................................................................7042
• “” + 617 + 635 + 627 + 652 + 641 + 642 + 690 = ............................7044

The K704* machines were replaced in the 80s by the CK26 and the Direct drive as ready assembled machines though you could add some attachments and both machines were available at the time

K5. ( These should never be confused with the larger machines and always had the smaller 200mm saw and 150 x 100 planer/thicknesser)

After the original trials with small machines on a table the K5 was launched on a splay legged table in 2 forms the basic 4 function, saw + planer/thicknesser + spindle moulder and the 5 function with added a slot morticer. The Mk2 version was introduced on a straight legged table, slightly different colours and a few minor modifications including spindle shaft from 15mm to 20mm. In the late eighties this was rebadged a Bestcombi and colours now red and green and was almost identical to it’s K5 predecessor apart from a new 30mm spindle moulder shaft. Later Bestcombi 2000 was a completely different machine. Some early versions had a different belt system however.