Kity 619 Table Saw.

[woodturningbeekeeper]

I have a Kity 619 Table Saw and the power on/off switch has blown.
I've not seen a switch like this before it as two ceramic fuses inside and this is what as blown taking with it the fuse holders. I need to either repair or replace it. I have been in touch with Scheppach but that haven't been able to come back with any answers. I have attached a photo of the switch.

What can I saf

ely replace this switch with.
Thank you. Andrew

 

[Cabinetman]

Well as no one else has answered you, I’ll try my best, it looks to me as if those fuses just need to be a very good fit into the plastic holders, presumably it says somewhere on them what rating they are to get new ones,
If they are a slack fit it will cause heat. If it were mine I would wrap some foil around the fuse and push it home hard. It may be that they were a poor fit which is what has caused the damage. Of course you could solder them in place but that’s a bit too permanent.
Ian

 

[Cabinetman]

Looking at it again has that L/h top wire come adrift? If all else fails all that is actually needed are two in-line fuses one each side between those black wires.

 

[Tris]

Unless I'm mistaken that looks like both live and neutral are fused, I'm no electrician but that can't be a good thing surely. If the neutral blows then the tool could still be live. Think I'd be looking for a suitably sized NVR switch

 

[imageel]

I recently sold it however I'm pretty sure my Kity 613 bandsaw had a similar switch fitted with two fuses. In all the years I had it I never had any issues with blown fuses so never investigated it further.
As @Tris mentions, an unusual arrangement however again from memory the switch is an NVR type so failure of either fuse will cause the contactor to drop out and hence isolate both live and neutral downstream.

I am sure you'll find the amp rating stamped on the metal caps somewhere so I'd advise replacing with a similarly rated fuse, albeit the fact it has blown may indicate a fault elsewhere. As @Cabinetman mentions, make sure the fuse is a tight fit in the metal cups in the fuse-holder - I'd advise if not tight to crimp the cup to ensure a snug fit and definitely not to use aluminium foil or similar to pack it out if not snug - aluminium oxidises readily in contact with air and the oxide is quite a good insulator so is likely to cause more issues than it solves.
Years ago I believe in the USA they allowed aluminium cored house wiring promoted as a cheaper alternative to copper and it caused many issues because of the oxidation issue and the fact that it is ductile meaning screw type clamps would squash the metal if tightened up too much.
Copper is similarly ductile but doesn't oxidise so easily and this is the reason why spring clamp type connectors ala Wago etc are recommended for concealed non-serviceable joints over the old-style chocolate block connectors.

 

[Cabinetman]

I recently sold it however I'm pretty sure my Kity 613 bandsaw had a similar switch fitted with two fuses. In all the years I had it I never had any issues with blown fuses so never investigated it further.
As @Tris mentions, an unusual arrangement however again from memory the switch is an NVR type so failure of either fuse will cause the contactor to drop out and hence isolate both live and neutral downstream.

I am sure you'll find the amp rating stamped on the metal caps somewhere so I'd advise replacing with a similarly rated fuse, albeit the fact it has blown may indicate a fault elsewhere. As @Cabinetman mentions, make sure the fuse is a tight fit in the metal cups in the fuse-holder - I'd advise if not tight to crimp the cup to ensure a snug fit and definitely not to use aluminium foil or similar to pack it out if not snug - aluminium oxidises readily in contact with air and the oxide is quite a good insulator so is likely to cause more issues than it solves.
Years ago I believe in the USA they allowed aluminium cored house wiring promoted as a cheaper alternative to copper and it caused many issues because of the oxidation issue and the fact that it is ductile meaning screw type clamps would squash the metal if tightened up too much.
Copper is similarly ductile but doesn't oxidise so easily and this is the reason why spring clamp type connectors ala Wago etc are recommended for concealed non-serviceable joints over the old-style chocolate block connectors.

Thanks @imageel bad advice from me, I wasn’t sure which is why I said ... if it were me...
But good to know thanks.
The Americans have form when it comes to unsafe practices. For many years they used Mercury in ordinary house light switches, yes the contacts didn’t short out but dangerous if damaged.
But I suppose we were no better filling people’s mouths with mercury fillings!
Ian

 

[imageel]

Thanks @imageel bad advice from me, I wasn’t sure which is why I said ... if it were me...
But good to know thanks.
The Americans have form when it comes to unsafe practices. For many years they used Mercury in ordinary house light switches, yes the contacts didn’t short out but dangerous if damaged.
But I suppose we were no better filling people’s mouths with mercury fillings!
Ian

NP - ex-Marconi back in the day and eyesight permitting still dabble with IoT electronics!
I also used to do some TIG welding of aluminium and so know only too well how quickly it oxidises, it is for this reason you have to use AC to weld it, the cycle where the workpiece is -ve and tungsten electrode +ve literally tears of the thin oxide layer off the workpiece...

WRT mercury in amalgams, there is much noise on the web wrt this, however more learned studies of this show that the levels leached out are way below known toxic levels and moreover unlike some other heavy metals mercury does not build up on the body as it is principally removed in ones urine....

 

[MorrisWoodman12]

@woodturningbeekeeper They look like standard fuse holders fitted into a box to my eye. I specified many such things when I worked. A suitable replacement should be available from any reputable stockist. I would recommend the likes of Farnell, RS, Rapid, CPC though I'm sure you can find something on Ebay or that southern river.

As others have commented it's normal only to fuse the live as British and European safety standards.
Have fun and remain safe.
Martin

 

[Cabinetman]

NP - ex-Marconi back in the day and eyesight permitting still dabble with IoT electronics!
I also used to do some TIG welding of aluminium and so know only too well how quickly it oxidises, it is for this reason you have to use AC to weld it, the cycle where the workpiece is -ve and tungsten electrode +ve literally tears of the thin oxide layer off the workpiece...

WRT mercury in amalgams, there is much noise on the web wrt this, however more learned studies of this show that the levels leached out are way below known toxic levels and moreover unlike some other heavy metals mercury does not build up on the body as it is principally removed in ones urine....

Well that didn’t help the mad hatters. We aren’t as clever as we think sometimes, the amalgam in teeth will be looked back on in amazement in the future and it’s effect on the population. Much the same as the social unrest in the last century mostly in built up areas caused by lead in Petrol. The crime wave graphs compared to the period when we used lead are remarkable. Sorry to divert the thread.
Ian

 

[Distinterior]

I have a Kity 619 Table Saw and the power on/off switch has blown.
I've not seen a switch like this before it as two ceramic fuses inside and this is what as blown taking with it the fuse holders. I need to either repair or replace it. I have been in touch with Scheppach but that haven't been able to come back with any answers. I have attached a photo of the switch.
View attachment 182850
View attachment 182849
What can I safView attachment 182848ely replace this switch with.
Thank you. Andrew

A good few years ago ( probably 10 years now) I bought a Kity 618 & an Elu radial arm saw ( both from the mid to late 80's era) for my home workshop from a lady who's husband had recently passed away.
The Kity saw had a similar switch to yours on it Andrew, but was completely shot & melted..!
The motor itself worked fine, as did the rest of the saw but I needed to get a replacement switch. After a lot of searching, I came up with nothing to match the existing one, so I just bought an aftermarket NVR with overload protection and mounted that in its place instead.

It's been working fine ever since.

 

[woodturningbeekeeper]

Thanks @imageel bad advice from me, I wasn’t sure which is why I said ... if it were me...
But good to know thanks.
The Americans have form when it comes to unsafe practices. For many years they used Mercury in ordinary house light switches, yes the contacts didn’t short out but dangerous if damaged.
But I suppose we were no better filling people’s mouths with mercury fillings!
Ian

Many thanks for your help.

 

[woodturningbeekeeper]

A good few years ago ( probably 10 years now) I bought a Kity 618 & an Elu radial arm saw ( both from the mid to late 80's era) for my home workshop from a lady who's husband had recently passed away.
The Kity saw had a similar switch to yours on it Andrew, but was completely shot & melted..!
The motor itself worked fine, as did the rest of the saw but I needed to get a replacement switch. After a lot of searching, I came up with nothing to match the existing one, so I just bought an aftermarket NVR with overload protection and mounted that in its place instead.

It's been working fine ever since.

Many thanks for your help. In your comment you mention 'aftermarket' what is that I've not heard that term before. I feel the NVR + Overload Protection is my only hope and keep my fingers crossed I don't blow myself up. Regards Andrew.

 

[Distinterior]

Many thanks for your help. In your comment you mention 'aftermarket' what is that I've not heard that term before. I feel the NVR + Overload Protection is my only hope and keep my fingers crossed I don't blow myself up. Regards Andrew.

When I used the term "aftermarket", I was referring to a non original Kity/ Shepach switch.

There are various manufacturers that make NVR/ DOL starter switches with motor overload protection facility built in.
They are commonly available to buy,....you just need to find one that is compatible with the motor on your saw.

 

[Sideways]

Kity are a French brand that were acquired by Scheppach (German)and no longer exist as such.
French and German power outlets don't have polarity, so either the brown or blue wire in their leads could be live relative to earth.
If you are going to fuse an input on a machine where either line conductor could be live, you need to fuse both, so whichever is live will blow if there is a short to earth.
An accidental failure of the fuse in the "neutral" leg, whichever that is, is dangerous but maybe a lesser evil.
On overcurrent through the motor, you don't know which fuse will fail first because they are not precision devices. European electricians will be used to this and will always check both fuses.
In the uk, IF brown and blue polarities are fixed (no euro trailing sockets in the supply cable like my old Kity planer had) it would be safer to fuse only brown and remove the fuseholder from the blue neutral side.

I would be tempted to replace the whole unit with a new one, don't try to copy the original which is poorly suited to UK use. In any case, we should all have RCD s protecting all our workshop outlets in this day and age which makes life safer ....

 

[Sideways]

Well that didn’t help the mad hatters. We aren’t as clever as we think sometimes, the amalgam in teeth will be looked back on in amazement in the future and it’s effect on the population. Much the same as the social unrest in the last century mostly in built up areas caused by lead in Petrol. The crime wave graphs compared to the period when we used lead are remarkable. Sorry to divert the thread.
Ian
View attachment 182935

These are great, but 2 curves of similar shape don't prove causality....