Kity 419 and 90 degrees

[fatjames]

Hi all,
First of all, thank you all for everything I've read on the forum so far and thanks for having me

I recently splashed out on a Kity 419. The fence was nonsense, so I've added an Axminster bolt on (which is lovely, BTW), I've cleaned it all up, sanded and waxed the surface etc. But there are a few things I'm struggling with.

1. The sliding carriage and rails. With all the adjustment available on the saw (plus shims) I've been unable to get it level or running smoothly.
I think I'll need new wheels, but any advice before I spend any money would be great. I've already replaced the bearings, but this didn't help. It feels like there are high spots on the wheels as it get tight, then lose, then tight.. all the way along.
2. (and more important to me currently) I can't get the blade to 90 degrees.
As with most of these saws, the cheese hand wheel is mangled, but there enough teeth left to make adjustments. But when set to the very end of its travel, it's at about 89.4 degrees. I didn't think would be a major problem.. until I realised I didn't want to cut bevels on every cut.. Trying to make some t slot runners hasn't been fun..
I've looked inside and cleaned everything I can reach, there's nothing I can see blocking it's movement. The adjustable stop inside the machine has been backed off all the way, so it's not that either.
As I'm writing this, I'm starting to wonder if it's actually passed 90 rather than short of 90..

 

[RogerS]

Welcome to the forum, FJ.

I think that you'll find the answers to your questions in one of Steve Maskery's (of this parish) excellent DVDs. I think it's this one but I'm sure if Steve pops on by he'll be able to confirm.

Good luck with sorting your table saw out.

 

[fatjames]

Thank you.

As chance has it.. that DVD is already in basket

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'm pleased to hear it James!

The trunnion adjustment is pretty straightforward. Either the trunnions are suspended from the table, or, as they are on mine, the trunnions are attached to the cabinet. Either way, you loosen off the appropriate bolts and tap, with a rubber mallet, the trunnions or table top, until you get alignment.

The sliding table setup was filmed using Eric the Viking's TS200, which is a very similar saw to yours.

I don't have any WE7s duplicated at the mo, and am about to go away for a few days, but you can save yourself a few quid (no P&P charges), by ordering it as an MP4 download (that's not automatic, but email me and we can sort it out).

Not only will your saw perform to the best of its ability, but you will understand much better how the different bits work in relation to each other. It's a very satisfying thing to do actually.

 

[rafezetter]

Hi FJ

Might be able to help - I own a Kity 419 too and have recently done quite a lot of work to it so know my way around it better than I did.

Getting the blade to 90deg - ok so my first, well only, suggestion is taking off the left side panel and looking at the underside of the tabletop where it meets the motor mounting system - nearer to the front, away from the motor is a restricting "positive stop" bolt, designed to go to 90 deg and no further - a "hard stop".

This could have been set a tad too high so the blade is not quite reaching 90 deg.

Personally I've slackened mine off and don't use it at all - preferring to set the 90deg from my 250mm engineers square, which also has another advantage: I've noticed that the weight of the motor being on the left side can make the blade move just a hair off 90deg after locking off the angle alignment, so what I do is take the blade PAST 90deg by just a hair, then lock it off and it settles back to 90deg.

You should also always use the square on the left side of the blade, don't take any readings with it from the right sitting it on the blade clearance plate, that can't be trusted to be planar with the saw top as it's sitting on a couple of rubber washers on the right side with no support on the left so it sags a little closest to the blade. (doing it up really tight so it doesnt sag means the plate's rear is now below the tabletop and as you push stuff through the leading edge of the wood will get caught on that lip and making the wood bump up over the lip can be dangerous while the blade is spinning. Tbh the kity 419 blade clearance plate isn't very well designed and I'm trying to figure a solution, which will probably require some modfification of that area.

(Make sure youre square is actually square too or you'll never be right.)

I would also tighten up the nut just a tad on the back of the saw just under the tabletop, that's on the other end of the lock off mechanism as it can loosen as the saw is used from the vibration, and allow for slop on the blade angle.

There is a pretty large set of modifications that people have done to Kity 419 to fettle it and get the most out of it - a couple of which I've been meaning to add that I did recently regarding the dust collection which can be poor with the factory setup.

kity-419-table-saw-resources-mods-advice-t87857.html

Have a read - all of it is pretty simple stuff to do - but I would do as many as you want to in one go, as the trunnion system for aligning the blade to the mitre slot is a bit of a pig to re-assemble with the factory setup, but there is a solution to make that simpler as well.

hth and feel free to ask more questions.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Steve's memory is almost as bad as mine!

I now own a rather "bespoke" 1st generation TS200*. I used to own a Kity 419, the very machine that Rafezetter now has. The latter was the one Steve filmed.

Both of them have sliding tables, the only significant difference being that the TS200 uses a cast steel top and sliding table, whereas the 419 has white metal (alloy) components instead. So it can't rust, but the pieces are more easily worn, and so on. I have a Kity p/t made of the same stuff and have been grateful for it not rusting, and I don't think the choice is clear cut.

There are four sliding table runners - basically an adjustable bearing with a polythene "tyre". On mine these shrunk and split, making precise alignment impossible. It was frustrating as the bearings were OK but I couldn't see how to replace just the tyres.

I did source spares, to fit the TS200 equivalent. They're actually cheaper Chinese bearings than the original Kity ones (the ones I have are, anyway), but it's a very low stress application. If you buy them from Axminster you'll find the part number in the downloadable documentation for the saw - that should save you some time, but it might be different for the 2nd generation TS200, so be careful, and explain to them when you order that you want some for the older machine.

For the avoidance of doubt: Axminster do NOT sell spares for Kity, only for their own machines (which is entirely reasonable), so don't ask them for Kity stuff. Do, however, ask them for TS 200 bits...

Setting up the sliding carriage is a PITA. You need it to be in a parallel plane to the top of the table, but probably about 0.25mm higher, so the stock slides over without dragging. It is a fiddly process, as you cannot align the rail on its own and then the carriage. And adjusting the roller pressure underneath (to remove slop) also has an effect on the height. You just have to repeat, making increasingly fine adjustments) until it's right. A "Gem Red" type of inclinometer might help a bit, as it will at least let you see if rail and carriage and table top are all vertically parallel (they need to be).

To get horizontal parallel, set up the saw blade parallel to the guide slot nearest the sliding carriage, and the rail to the same side of the same slot. Obviously this assumes the slot is straight, but it also means you get the length of the table to use to check parallelism, rather than just the length of the blade. It's more accurate that way.

Don't be tempted to think you can slide the rail to and fro on its mountings and expect it to stay accurate - there is simply far too much slack in the bolt holes, etc. You will need to check it each time if doing anything critical. It's great for cross-cutting long stock, but for panels, boards, etc, you need the rail sticking out towards the operator, and it gets in the way. So even if you don't think so you probably will want to slide it along to various positions. You might make an alignment jig (don't assume the table is parallel-edged though!), I haven't done so, but may yet.

That said, adjusting the long fence on the carriage is really easy and you can get it square. There is a peg, offset in a hole in the carriage top, and rotating that gives the micro-adjustment easily. I found that worked well.

HTH, E.

PS: Get a tin of Liberon Machine Wax and use it on the table/carriage surfaces, so they are suitably low-friction. It really helps when sliding stock along past the saw. You need to re-apply it fairly often, obviously.

*(in other words it was a basket case, now being slowly brought back to usable condition, with much help from friends)

 

[fatjames]

Thank you everyone.
I've got a busy week, so probably won't get the chance to do any fettling this week. I'll keep this updated with my progress

 

[fatjames]

PS: Get a tin of Liberon Machine Wax and use it on the table/carriage surfaces, so they are suitably low-friction. It really helps when sliding stock along past the saw. You need to re-apply it fairly often, obviously.

I grabbed a tin of Liberon BBPWCL500 500ml Black Bison Wax Polish - Clear - do you think this would work in the same way?

I remember hearing on a video someone suggesting 'paste wax' as a machine lubricant. I've never opened it, so I'm not to sure what it's like.
Machine Wax isn't very expensive, so happy to get that too if needed.

 

[Steve Maskery]

That will be fine.