Keir Starmer

[Terry - Somerset]

I know it seems like a great deal to some. But it isn't. Here is the problem: bright and motivated people, who are fit and healthy, well educated and personable can and do earn multiples of what MPs earn. This is just a fact. People may not like it but salaries in the hundreds of thousands and upwards are not that unusual for people who direct and run large businesses.

We presumably want the best and brightest as MPs - but such people are not interested in £90k per annum and all the media scrutiny and public opprobrium that goes with it. Hence, as so often in life, we get what we pay for.

To be in the top 1% of income tax payers in the UK (i.e. to be among the 310,000 individuals with the highest income), a taxable income of at least £160,000 is required. £236,000 is required to be in the top 0.5% and nearly £650,000 to be in the top 0.1%..

I want my elected representatives to come from the best available talents, often (not always) evidenced by their earning capacity. I want them to be intellectually and socially adept, capable of manging complex relationships, balancing priorities, presentational and debating skills etc etc etc.

Mr or Mrs Average, however decent they are as human beings, are not close to this standard.

Asserting that an average salary will suffice will consign the UK to far, far less than average outcomes - only the inadequate, incompetent, or self obsessed egotistical will be attracted to political leadership. They would be very quickly emasculated by those around them.

 

[ey_tony]

Fear not, Starmer speaks for all of the world's sausages, no matter where they held... That guy is worth his weight in gold!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...sages-held-in-gaza-in-conference-speech-video

 

[AJB Temple]

It's not just the money though. The endless media attention that we subject our MPs to, is likely to attract mainly narcissist types. The attention spills over to spouses and potentially children. MPs can also be a target for direct abuse and harm. People who just want to live a private life, but who would be absolutely perfect for managing departments, have creative ideas, make tough decisions etc - will not even consider becoming an MP, let alone the endless doorstepping to get votes.

The system is set up to fail if the criteria is recruiting the best.

 

[Rewound]

You fault

not really, I may have wanted him to win, but I voted tory to keep the SNP out. So I can genuinely say I didn't vote for him

 

[woodieallen]

This survived so not a typo. What? Reading too much Dan Wootton deleted stuff?

Kneeler ? Two-tier? Take your pick.

 

[woodieallen]

The tories have decimated the UK health system. They've destroyed 90% of our industry, initiated brexit which was pretty much akin to cutting the country's throat

My question to you is - Where do you think the money is going to come from to fix all this ?
NHS under labour the waiting lists are very low. Tories come in and the waiting lists shoot up. Labour get back in and down come the lists again. Between labour and conservative its like a zigzag shape - up tory, down labour and so on



Not even by a long shot.
But these gifts are perfectly normal, and nothing was hidden, and all were declared.

Cleverly is the latest to fall foul. Mr Brass neck. Critical of Starmer, yet there he was at the Wimbledon with his wife and free tickets plus a very nice lunch at the presidents club, all laid on for free.
We could understand a gift were Cleverly the minister for sport, and were he there under that role it would be perfectly acceptable(if legally declared as with all of Kier Starmer's gifts, which are calculated over the last 5 years, so its not like he got £106k in the last couple of months of being in office. But not so, as Mr Cleverly was the foreign secretary at the time. So he had no reason to accept such a gift as it was well outside his official remit.

Or how about Robert Jenrick and the mysterious £75,000 paid to him by a company registered in the British virgin islands. A company with no assets, no employees, no actual offices and credit liabilities of a £1/3m
But according to Mr Jenrick, it was all above board.


Truth of it is we've allowed politicians as a whole to control the public purse strings and they just cant keep their hands out of it. But corruption in its illegal form is more rife in the Conservative party, than all the other parties put together.
How about Conservative party donors buying up land that they knew HS2 was going to have to buy.
Somehow they knew the route well before hand and decided on a whim to buy up land that a compulsory purchase order was going to be placed against, netting themselves a very tidy profit.

But you brought up Boris Johnson, so you clearly know about all the money he's received, and not just for doing up his flat.

I think perhaps you should stay away from that type of you tube gaslighting conspiracy theorists and maybe follow proper political commentators.

Oh dear...completely missing the point. Kneeler was supposed to be Mr Clean. Patently he is not.

 

[woodieallen]

Cronyism is just so engrained in this lot that they seem to think it is normal, I thought the foreign secretary handled a lot of that but obviously they needed to park old Sue up somewhere and I wonder if she retains that over sized paypacket. What is more worrying than old sue is that in times like this you need good statesmen with diplomatic skills to hold things together yet these muppets are looking to get us involved in conflict with Iran which would just ignite the middle east and then watch oil prices soar as we have no fall back on Russian oil like last time round and guess who ends up with even higher cost of living.

That's allright...not too long now and Iran will light things up with a very big bang. Or two.

 

[TRITON]

I know it seems like a great deal to some. But it isn't. Here is the problem: bright and motivated people, who are fit and healthy, well educated and personable can and do earn multiples of what MPs earn. This is just a fact. People may not like it but salaries in the hundreds of thousands and upwards are not that unusual for people who direct and run large businesses.

We presumably want the best and brightest as MPs - but such people are not interested in £90k per annum and all the media scrutiny and public opprobrium that goes with it. Hence, as so often in life, we get what we pay for.

Ahh, but for these high paying gigs they need to have qualifications in those fields. My dad was on about 80k as principle engineer at baeSema, he was a highly qualified chartered engineer.
The brother in law is head of legal at one of the councils and he gets £110k.

These 4r5eholes in Westminster believe their worth is in the hundreds of thousands. But the truth is they are part of a corrupt system who can only survive and ask huge wages if the system is as corrupt.
If we took away 2nd jobs, then the wages of the industries involved would drop considerably

Of course if we took away 2nd jobs, the conservative party, which from 90% of corruption lies would find some way to work around it.

In Romania, they initially had really bad corruption issues, but introduced a law that a politician cannot use his office or role to either enrich himself OR HIS PARTY. So they couldnt tout for lobbying contracts of have industries pay them.
Due to that law Romania even managed to imprison their previous prime minister and other mps.

Mind you the post revolution Romanian system of replacing corrupt politicians previously involved putting them up against a wall. So a couple of years in clink and loss of position they were doing far better.

Perhaps hats the type of system we need here. Where there is no personal gifts, but also they cannot raise donations from industries vying for contracts

 

[TRITON]

Kneeler

Who is Kneeler ? I dont get the reference

 

[AJB Temple]

I fear you are missing the point Triton. We want good quality politicians. We know we don't have them. The question is why.

The answer is the job is not attractive to people with ethics and intellect and who are not narcissists hungry for social media clicks. This recruitment block is because they are hounded mercilessly by the media, and it is dramatically underpaid for people who look at the opportunity cost of choosing ethical politics.

Assuming you are not being disingenuous about the kneeler reference, the answer is he jumps on every passing bandwagon. When the BLM craze for "taking the knee" craze was briefly popular, he was shown in full "marry me" pose with Ms Rayner. He's been kneeler ever since as many people thought, well maybe all lives matter equally. Two tier has since been added because it's a different law for him and his ilk with regard to policing and enforcement, and not long after that we had lots of examples of freebies, which some think are ever so similar to bribes. For a former DPP director who stood for election on the basis of ethical government, it all adds to a sense of tone deaf personal entitlement and greed.

 

[TRITON]

When the BLM craze for "taking the knee" craze was briefly popular,

It wasnt a craze, it was showing a portion of our population, one who had been demonized in the media and populists like farage, that we are willing to stand by them and show that they are also an important part of the community.
It's only the hate filled cnuts who actually cause the problems that have taken issue with this.

Two tier

Again, a phrase thought up by the extremist right wing media, because they saw themselves under attack

The answer is the job is not attractive to people with ethics and intellect and who are not narcissists hungry for social media clicks. This recruitment block is because they are hounded mercilessly by the media, and it is dramatically underpaid for people who look at the opportunity cost of choosing ethical politics.

I would say than that the answer is to dramatically increase politicians wages to say £250k and completely disallow them from taking a 2nd or whatever job.

If we dont do something like that, we'll end up having some hedge fund company running the country, and the people will face hardships that wouldnt be out of place in Dickensian britain.
A long time ago(30+ years ago) i predicted that if we kept on going the way we were,parliament and its members would mostly end up as millionaires, and we would be the ones constantly being told by them we need to tighten our belts.

I'm dead against that. If we want people to run the country, they should have the country's wellbeing in mind, not how much money they can scrape out of it for themselves. THAT will attract the entirely wrong type of person into that position. As such the banning of 2nd jobs is paramount

There are many people in government, in Parliament and in the civil service that hold those ideals dear.

 

[niemeyjt]

Who is Kneeler ? I dont get the reference

There you go - an earlier example of finding a bandwagon and jumping on it.

One of the BLM objectives was defunding the Police - I wonder whether he has forgone his Police protection also in solidarity?

 

[TRITON]

You mean the institutionally racist and misogynistic police service ?. Yes I can understand why they might feel like that should be an option



As to politicians jumping on a bandwagon, can you name me a politician who hasn't ? and as such why direct towards Keir Starmer

Politicians have to try to show solidarity to all groups in this country

 

[niemeyjt]

So others have done something before, so it is OK for him to do it too. Hardly the "Change" we were promised before the election.

As for Police, I agree they can be awful, especially the Met. However in the US where BLM originated they have other mechanisms for self protection not available to us in Europe. The Met, however flawed, are all we have.

Politicians do not have to show solidarity with everyone and everything - indeed I sincerely hope they don't with some of the religious sects out there.

It reminds me of the advice to teachers - "I am here to teach you, not to be your friend". Same applies to our leaders - their job is to lead.

 

[ey_tony]

It wasnt a craze, it was showing a portion of our population, one who had been demonized in the media and populists like farage, that we are willing to stand by them and show that they are also an important part of the community.
It's only the hate filled cnuts who actually cause the problems that have taken issue with this.



Again, a phrase thought up by the extremist right wing media, because they saw themselves under attack


I would say than that the answer is to dramatically increase politicians wages to say £250k and completely disallow them from taking a 2nd or whatever job.

If we dont do something like that, we'll end up having some hedge fund company running the country, and the people will face hardships that wouldnt be out of place in Dickensian britain.
A long time ago(30+ years ago) i predicted that if we kept on going the way we were,parliament and its members would mostly end up as millionaires, and we would be the ones constantly being told by them we need to tighten our belts.

I'm dead against that. If we want people to run the country, they should have the country's wellbeing in mind, not how much money they can scrape out of it for themselves. THAT will attract the entirely wrong type of person into that position. As such the banning of 2nd jobs is paramount

There are many people in government, in Parliament and in the civil service that hold those ideals dear.

I would certainly argue that token politicians like Rayner who are only there for the party to tick the working class/union box just aren't intellectually qualified/ educated enough to be such as the deputy PM of this country.
She's the equivalent of New Labour's Two Jags and what exactly did he as a politician contribute?

I don't know about Farage being populist but Starmer certainly fits that bill.
He was hyper-critical of the Tory's leadership regarding alleged cronyism but all the while guilty of exactly the same thing while at the same time making false promises regarding the economy he/they knew they couldn't keep and hiding their true agenda so that they could get elected. That to me is populism. They jumped on the anti-Tory bandwagon with no concept of how they would solve the issues they claimed was all the Tory's fault other than with false promises.

As for Farage's Reform party they took 14.3% share of the election vote compared to the Lib-Dems which took only 12.2% giving them 72 seats to Reform's 5 seats.
There's nothing populist about a party that comes third in a general election. There again it depends upon what one defines as populist!

If speaking out about the abuse of our social benefits system annually by thousands of fake asylum seekers is populist then it's little wonder that Reform got so many votes.
I'm personally not a Reform voter nor right wing but it's not difficult to see why the people are sick and tired of our governments doing nothing while our welfare system is being milked by fake asylum seekers. We're not talking about genuine refugees fleeing persecution, they deserve our help.
We are talking about the thousands of perfectly healthy young men paying criminals to get them across the Channel in small boats supposedly leaving their families behind in war torn regions while seeking asylum here in the UK.

If I lived in such an area then I'd stay and fight to protect my family not flee leaving behind my family to whatever fate awaits them. Sorry but most are not true asylum seekers, they're arguably either cowards or economic migrants doing or saying anything they can to get into this country.
It's the taxpayer who has to foot the bill for these people. and we have enough issues of our own including Starmer removing the Winter Fuel Payment from one of the most vulnerable groups in our society.
We'll have pensioners unable to afford to heat their homes this winter while fake asylum seekers come off boats and straight into warm hotels...you couldn't make it up.

By definition if these alleged asylum seekers have passed through other safe countries in order to get to the UK and not sought asylum in the first safe country they entered then arguably they're not genuine asylum seekers, they are in fact illegal immigrants.

 

[Chris152]

Keir starmer

-Beer & Curry Gate
-Lying about every pledge he’s ever made at Labour conference
-Lying about being friends with JC
-Being discovered as taking over £100k in ‘gifts’, more than any other MP
- Not knowing what a women is (even though he’s has reportedly had many affairs involving them).

An interesting incite into his personality?



P.s, For the usual suspects who want to bring up ‘Boris Johnson’ as an excuse, even though Keir is worse, or at least just as bad, you’re telling on yourselves, so be my guest. The two can exist at the same time.

It's marvellous how the internet allows a group of people to whip themselves into a frenzy over an issue - take something negative out of a far broader context, summarise events in a completely unbalanced way, focus obsessively on them, damning those involved to hell etc.
Whatever helps us get through the day, I guess.

 

[TRITON]

Being discovered as taking over £100k in ‘gifts’, more than any other MP

Can you tell me how that was 'discovered'

 

[niemeyjt]

Sorry again. What change are you referring to ?

Your comment "As to politicians jumping on a bandwagon, can you name me a politician who hasn't ?"

Clearly Sir Keir is not changing his behaviour from that of other politicians (witness also the snout-in-trough issues above).

Doing the same as his predecessors is not "change".

 

[TRITON]

Sorry old chap, but i cant remember any promise of change. other than changes to the economy

It honestly seems like you are misinformed and making a lot of this up.

You'll be trying to convince me next that Nigel Farage is really a nice genuine guy

 

[cerro]

I would certainly argue that token politicians like Rayner who are only there for the party to tick the working class/union box just aren't intellectually qualified/ educated enough to be such as the deputy PM of this country.
She's the equivalent of New Labour's Two Jags and what exactly did he as a politician contribute?

I don't know about Farage being populist but Starmer certainly fits that bill.
He was hyper-critical of the Tory's leadership regarding alleged cronyism but all the while guilty of exactly the same thing while at the same time making false promises regarding the economy he/they knew they couldn't keep and hiding their true agenda so that they could get elected. That to me is populism. They jumped on the anti-Tory bandwagon with no concept of how they would solve the issues they claimed was all the Tory's fault other than with false promises.

As for Farage's Reform party they took 14.3% share of the election vote compared to the Lib-Dems which took only 12.2% giving them 72 seats to Reform's 5 seats.
There's nothing populist about a party that comes third in a general election. There again it depends upon what one defines as populist!

If speaking out about the abuse of our social benefits system annually by thousands of fake asylum seekers is populist then it's little wonder that Reform got so many votes.
I'm personally not a Reform voter nor right wing but it's not difficult to see why the people are sick and tired of our governments doing nothing while our welfare system is being milked by fake asylum seekers. We're not talking about genuine refugees fleeing persecution, they deserve our help.
We are talking about the thousands of perfectly healthy young men paying criminals to get them across the Channel in small boats supposedly leaving their families behind in war torn regions while seeking asylum here in the UK.

If I lived in such an area then I'd stay and fight to protect my family not flee leaving behind my family to whatever fate awaits them. Sorry but most are not true asylum seekers, they're arguably either cowards or economic migrants doing or saying anything they can to get into this country.
It's the taxpayer who has to foot the bill for these people. and we have enough issues of our own including Starmer removing the Winter Fuel Payment from one of the most vulnerable groups in our society.
We'll have pensioners unable to afford to heat their homes this winter while fake asylum seekers come off boats and straight into warm hotels...you couldn't make it up.

By definition if these alleged asylum seekers have passed through other safe countries in order to get to the UK and not sought asylum in the first safe country they entered then arguably they're not genuine asylum seekers, they are in fact illegal immigrants.

Vey well put I wish more people and MPs would speake there mind