Just use the blade guard!

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accident
/ˈaksɪd(ə)nt/


noun

1.
an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury."he had an accident at the factory"



Similar:

 mishap



 misfortune



 misadventure 



mischance



 unfortunate-incident 

injury 



disaster



 tragedy



 catastrophe



contretemps 



calamity



 blow



 trouble



 problem 



difficulty



 casualty

2.
an event that happens by chance or that is without apparent or deliberate cause."the pregnancy was an accident"

hope that helps!
 
Your arguments are internally inconsistent.

The subject of this thread is injuries caused by machinery, and the issue is; can these injuries be considered 'accidents'.

As such, the 'general usage' of the word 'accident' is totally irrelevant, as we are not talking in general but in specifics.
My statements (or arguments) are totally consistent.

You are trying to make semantic arguments that don’t exist.

of course the meaning of the word accident is totally relevant as is the difference between it and the word incident.

Go back and read the thread in its totality I am not going to repeat myself because you might have a limited attention span or are being deliberately obtuse.

the answer in short to that question is that it depends on circumstances and decisions prior to the injury If it is correctly called an accident or an incident.
 
I was away from home when I replied before so couldn’t take pictures. These are of my original guard that has been temporarily attached to the side of my saw for pictures and the low level riving knife that I had made for it a few years ago. The knife guard with top guard attached is original to the machine.

down
View attachment 105790
locked up a little
View attachment 105791

and a bit moreView attachment 105792

the reverse side showing the adjustment set screw, this allows you to change the position of the locking lever.
View attachment 105793

the attachment to the riving knife
View attachment 105794

and both guards
View attachment 105795
That's clever - I didn't think of something with a little lever arm to quickly do it up tight.

Thanks for the pictures - they've been a great help.
 
Never read such a load of irrelevant old tosh. HSE don't care about your fingers they just care about their government funding so often their rules don't make any sense. Its simple: You pick up a chisel, knife, saw, expect to get cut if you don't use it right. HSE ain't got no rules for fitted chisel guards, fitted kitchen knife guards, potato peeler guards so why create them for table saws? The rule is; use a potentially dangerous device, accept you could get hurt and so if you do GET OVER YOURSELF. Stop rattling on like old trains going down a track you lot and go do something useful for the world!
 
Never read such a load of irrelevant old tosh. HSE don't care about your fingers they just care about their government funding so often their rules don't make any sense. Its simple: You pick up a chisel, knife, saw, expect to get cut if you don't use it right. HSE ain't got no rules for fitted chisel guards, fitted kitchen knife guards, potato peeler guards so why create them for table saws? The rule is; use a potentially dangerous device, accept you could get hurt and so if you do GET OVER YOURSELF. Stop rattling on like old trains going down a track you lot and go do something useful for the world!
I heard it’s just you they don’t care about ;)
 
Never read such a load of irrelevant old tosh. HSE don't care about your fingers they just care about their government funding so often their rules don't make any sense. Its simple: You pick up a chisel, knife, saw, expect to get cut if you don't use it right. HSE ain't got no rules for fitted chisel guards, fitted kitchen knife guards, potato peeler guards so why create them for table saws? The rule is; use a potentially dangerous device, accept you could get hurt and so if you do GET OVER YOURSELF. Stop rattling on like old trains going down a track you lot and go do something useful for the world!
What??? Potato peelers and table saws??? What???

If you're trying to disprove the previous comments of not enough Vodka being drunk, you nailed it.... ;)
 
Funny Animated Gif: Animated Gifs Laughing
 
Some of these comments are very amusing🤣
Evolution has given us fingers and thumbs. It also gave some of our ancestors the brain power to design some truly jawdroppingly scary pieces of machinery, many of which are still around, albeit in sanitised versions.
Evolution also didn’t create all humans and their ancestors equally...
I once got into big trouble at a trade show when a fairly new to the job HSE inspector commented that a machine I was trying to market could cause the operator serious injury.....to negate that possibility would have made the machine totally useless... I commented along the lines that it was all part of natural evolution in that once the op had no fingers left he wouldn’t be able to press the go button...
On a serious note, I use guards religiously, and make or modify them to suit my purpose. E.g. cut down riving knives for tennoning on the table saw because that kind of cut is just asking to close up. But I find the biggest thing is the work holding. I seem to spend the most time making jigs/ carriers call them what you will: the further away from the cutting edge my bodily parts are and the more control I have the happier I am.
Some of the stuff you see on YouTube and the like is crazy, I can just about understand removing a guard if it makes the job quicker, but not using one when its perfectly possible is, well, back to Darwin...
 
The Darwin awards, the rules are quite specific, and too involved to repeat here (see wiki) but basically you have to remove yourself from the gene pool through death or be unable to reproduce due to your own stupidity.
But you also have to off yourself before reproducing in a rather spectacularly stupid way.
 
I thought the HSE was to provide safety rulings so that dodgy bosses couldn't put untrained workers on dangerous machines or environments.
 
I thought the HSE was to provide safety rulings so that dodgy bosses couldn't put untrained workers on dangerous machines or environments.
In part yes, they provide advice and inform on good practice to commercial entities which if not adhered to can potentially result in legal enforcement. From a non-commercial perspective, the information they provide is worth reading, not always relevant of course but worth reading as it's ultimately about operator safety. They actually do a lot more in aspects like licensing and industry engagement. In reality, comparative to the number of businesses that would fall under their remit, there are actually very few cases prosecuted or notices issued.

However it should be noted that due to recent and thorough investigations reported back to this very wood working forum in post 164, it appears we have all been hoodwinked. We now have it on good authority that they are only in it for the money and from now on if you lose an arm because of improper workplace safety practices then you will be told to get over yourself, stop being a train and do something useful for the world. The upside of course is that potato peelers will be spared the bureaucratic horror of being dragged into the HSE's scope of stormtrooper-esq assessment.

The HSE is seems has been of no use for the last 47 years, who knew?
 
I, for one, will never look at my potatoe peeler in quite the same way again !
I never realised that such an animal was lurking in the kitchen drawer, biding
it's time until it let wreak it's havoc upon me.
Gosh and phew !!! :D
 
I, for one, will never look at my potatoe peeler in quite the same way again !
I never realised that such an animal was lurking in the kitchen drawer, biding
it's time until it let wreak it's havoc upon me.
Gosh and phew !!! :D
Absolutely. Check the peelings for fingers and other appendages.:oops:
 
I thought the HSE was to provide safety rulings so that dodgy bosses couldn't put untrained workers on dangerous machines or environments.

I've learned a lot from this forum and thread, I'm quite new to power TS - having had (and then having to modify the fence, mitre slide, and better guard) a cheap one for 5 or so years (cf 40 years of hand sawing). I have taken away from this thread better was to use push sticks and avoid those over the saw ones. I'm still terrified of the thing. In my experience HSE has been transformational in my working life time. They do tend to focus on where the statistics are bad, so attention ebbs and flows depending on where the Riddor statistics go. There is a lot of nonsense reported about the HSE banning stuff which is simply not true, but usually used as an excuse for someone not wanting to do something.

HSE and 1974 H&S at Work Act have transformed working conditions. - Despite us all not liking being told how to go about our business, this is about life and limb.
-Workplace deaths down 90% (99.9% in most industries) in 45 years, injuries down as well. https://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/history/historical-picture.pdf
There are about 2000 enforcement notice per year - still quite shocking.
-HSE gov grant is £120m per year - to put in perspective its about 1/thousandth (corrected) of the NHS budget or 1/3 day of NHS, its at the prevent end whilst NHS is at the repair end of the chain.
-HSE is primarily about work practice but as others have said it also educates the rest of us.

I have personal experience of when the HSE started to get serous in early 1980's.
As a student in the early 80's our prof summonsed everyone to a lecture on safety, he was an impressive, scary charismatic non-nonsense cockney and he put if bluntly, 'since the act, I'm now personally accountable for safety, its no longer the SOs accountability, therefore you will all wear ppe etc and I will take compliance into consideration when signing off your annual grant renewal forms (we got grants in those days). HSE notices went up and we wore safety specs and two people kept their eyes when the inevitable happened in the chemistry lab. It was clear the HSE could send him to prison. HSE was a serious business.
I've worked in manufacturing for 30 odd years and seen a complete transformation in HSE culture during that time. We used to just pour nasty stuff down the drain, now its carefully packaged and sent for treatment. In our 'work environment' the term accident has largely been replaced by other terms such as incident, largely because the view is all accidents can be prevented, whereas the definition of accidental implies it chance is sole cause. In reality a route cause can be found.
There is a lot of mad and bad HSE excuses banded about, eg cancelling pancake raises due to the HSE. Usually this is risk-averse or lazy management not wanting to engaging in doing stuff properly and drives the HSE executive mad, Judith Hackett has railed against it. In my experience the HSE is aiming to help companies and people do stuff - by doing it safely. ie the potato peeling that works well and manages hazardous work safely.

Back to the forum, please keep giving us good ideas on how to carry out woodwork skillfully and safely. Thanks
 
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Never read such a load of irrelevant old tosh. HSE don't care about your fingers they just care about their government funding so often their rules don't make any sense. Its simple: You pick up a chisel, knife, saw, expect to get cut if you don't use it right. HSE ain't got no rules for fitted chisel guards, fitted kitchen knife guards, potato peeler guards so why create them for table saws? The rule is; use a potentially dangerous device, accept you could get hurt and so if you do GET OVER YOURSELF. Stop rattling on like old trains going down a track you lot and go do something useful for the world!
I could share some very nasty pictures of a guy who got his loose sleeve caught in the revolving chuck of a 15 inch lathe. It pulled him in and pretty much tore him in half. Hadn't bothered with any of the safety gear, chuck guard etc. In this case the conclusion was that his employer had provided all the correct kit, training etc, and couldn't be expected to stand over him all day to ensure he complied. So useful in this case in protecting the employer. He unfortunately wasn't able to get over himself as he was very dead. Suffice to say I think comparisons with potato peelers are pretty dumb.
 
I really wouldn’t bother trying to explain why planesleuth is wrong, you can’t reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into, may as well try and teach your dog algebra
Aidan
 
And if you need to clear something near the blade, turn the damn thing off and clear it. Even with pushsticks the chances of that little offcut catching the blade , and getting flung out in god knows what direction is something I'm sure we've all experienced.
 

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