Just bought a Viceroy TDS6 short bed

[Farmer Giles]

a bit of an impulse buy, it was at the right price and within easy collection distance.

Doesn't seem to be a chuck however to begin with I just want it to make the odd round thing, knobs, short spindles, just general stuff, bowls may come later, probably if I ever get to retire. I was looking for a graduate short bed but they seem to be silly money so this was my second choice. Any tips from Viceroy users accepted

Cheers
Andy

 

[dickm]

Think you've got a bit of an alignment problem with that tailstock................

 

[graduate_owner]

I bought a Viceroy a few years ago, full bed version. The head and tail stocks are 3MT. The inboard thread is 1 1/2" x 8, same as boxford and you can get a backplate from RDG tools which may allow you to fit a woodturning chuck on. The outboard thread is a bit more awkward - 1 1/4 x 9 left hand. I haven't seen that thread anywhere else. Faceplates do appear on ebay occasionally but fetch £30+. Mine came with a metal chuck and a faceplate for inboard but nothing for outboard, so I bought a tap off ebay and am going to try to make my own outboard faceplate, or modify the thread on an existing one. I want to use the outboard for a disc sander, since I don't need it for turning ( I have a graduate bowl lathe for that, I only need the Viceroy for spindle work).
Check out lathes.co for some more info. The Viceroy handbook is available online as a free download. If you can't find it I can email you a pdf copy.
Do you have a single or 3 phase motor? Do you need to change the motor? If so, what I did was to unbolt the motor mounting plate, complete with motor attached, and winch the lathe up and away leaving the motor plate on the floor. It's a bit of a palaver but do-able. After the replacement motor is bolted to the mounting plate, lower the lathe back into position - getting the alignment right is a bit fiddly, as is getting in the bolts furthest from you, but again do-able.

I replaced my 3 phase 440V motor with a dual voltage 3 phase and now have variable speed which is nice to have. I also had to sort out a problem with tailstock alignment - the tailstock can be moved sideways as in a metal lathe. The casting with the thread that allows this was broken so I had to machine a replacement part, but all good now.
I think it is a well made, solid machine. Might not be as convenient as modern machines because of the non standarc threads, and no swivel head etc. but that lathe will last you a long time. The bed on mine is cast iron and about as heavily build as my Myford metal lathe bed. Rock sold.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Think you've got a bit of an alignment problem with that tailstock................

Yes but I want to turn around corners I shall let you know how it goes, picking it up Monday morning.

I bought a Viceroy a few years ago, full bed version. The head and tail stocks are 3MT. The inboard thread is 1 1/2" x 8, same as boxford and you can get a backplate from RDG tools which may allow you to fit a woodturning chuck on. The outboard thread is a bit more awkward - 1 1/4 x 9 left hand. I haven't seen that thread anywhere else. Faceplates do appear on ebay occasionally but fetch £30+. Mine came with a metal chuck and a faceplate for inboard but nothing for outboard, so I bought a tap off ebay and am going to try to make my own outboard faceplate, or modify the thread on an existing one. I want to use the outboard for a disc sander, since I don't need it for turning ( I have a graduate bowl lathe for that, I only need the Viceroy for spindle work).
Check out lathes.co for some more info. The Viceroy handbook is available online as a free download. If you can't find it I can email you a pdf copy.
Do you have a single or 3 phase motor? Do you need to change the motor? If so, what I did was to unbolt the motor mounting plate, complete with motor attached, and winch the lathe up and away leaving the motor plate on the floor. It's a bit of a palaver but do-able. After the replacement motor is bolted to the mounting plate, lower the lathe back into position - getting the alignment right is a bit fiddly, as is getting in the bolts furthest from you, but again do-able.

I replaced my 3 phase 440V motor with a dual voltage 3 phase and now have variable speed which is nice to have. I also had to sort out a problem with tailstock alignment - the tailstock can be moved sideways as in a metal lathe. The casting with the thread that allows this was broken so I had to machine a replacement part, but all good now.
I think it is a well made, solid machine. Might not be as convenient as modern machines because of the non standarc threads, and no swivel head etc. but that lathe will last you a long time. The bed on mine is cast iron and about as heavily build as my Myford metal lathe bed. Rock sold.

K

Many thanks for that, useful information, the threads were my main concern, I have an imperial screwcutting lathe, but not a lot of experience in screwcutting, but my next door neighbour is a toolmaker so I may cross his palm with silver

Its single phase, but may swap it for 3 phase as I have a spare inverter so could tinker with the speed I also have a 240 to 415v converter but I tend to use that for bigger stuff like the colchester that has a 7.5hp motor.

I don't have a clue when it comes to woodworking chucks, much to learn.

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

Hi again Andy,
I am a beginner at metal turning, so not much of a clue about screw cutting either. When it comes to chucks, don't be tempted to use a metal chuck to grip wood because it just doesn't work. The jaws will crush the wood fibres and the wood slips off. However you could make a pin chuck and hold that in the jaws of a metal chuck. Just a cylinder of steel with a flat ground on it, and a loose pin - you will easily see what I mean from a catalogue picture. You could also turn up a screw chuck and hold that in your metal chuck.

K

 

[J-G]

When it comes to chucks, don't be tempted to use a metal chuck to grip wood because it just doesn't work. The jaws will crush the wood fibers and the wood slips off.

I can't let that statement go unchallenged !

Metal-turning chucks are capable of taking different jaws just as wood-turning chucks are. Not only do they have essentially 'pointed' jaws they also have external gripping 'curved' jaws (in the same way that wood-turning jaws are) and soft jaws which can be machined to grip a particular diameter and even be drilled and tapped to become 'carriers' for larger jaws.

I do have a X600 chuck which I use for most of my wood-turning but also use metal chucks with both types of hard jaws, as well as soft jaws and even a 4 jaw independent jaw chuck on occasion for initial rounding of odd 'lumps' of wood.

I agree that it would be better to use a wood-turning chuck but the statement 'just doesn't work' is so wrong !

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nevertheless posts asking advice are generally by inexperienced people, so it's probably wiser just to say don't do it.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks guys

I'll wait until I pick it up before I look into it further in case there is a box of bits including a nova or sorby chuck with it - doubtful but you never know.

Looking at Nova, they don't have anything beyond 1-1/4" and even their blank insert doesn't go that big, I'm in no rush.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've an old Nova on an exert down from 1 1/2" x 6 - it runs perfectly true.
A poor picture, Stanley blade for scale -

 

[Farmer Giles]

if all else fails I'll make my own insert, my neighbour regularly screwcuts in an aerospace factory so I'll get him around to help. I renovated this last year, it had a broken gearbox and several collapsed bearings

after replacing some broken selectors in the gearbox, loads of new oils seals, a few bearings and a bit of paint it now looks like this, or did until i started using it, its a long bed Colchester Triumph 2000. Everything now works, it has a bit of backlash but came with a DRO, I will replace the cross slide nut at some point.

Cheers
Andy

 

[graduate_owner]

Very nice Andy. I have a colchester master, the square head mk 2 version, but very unskilled at the moment.

J-g:
I was not aware you could get different types of jaws for metal chucks. I have internal and external jaws, and I have heard of soft jaws but never seen any. My comments were based on my own experience using my jaws, and I stand corrected. I do think a metal chuck is useful though, even if just for holding things such as pin chucks, or perhaps hard plastic. If I need to hold wood in my colchester then I put a spare graduate spindle (another ebay find) in the 3 jaw chuck and thread my woodturning chuck on to that. Next job is to make a tool rest holder for the colchester. One of these days!!
And one of these days I might get the chance to do some serious woodturning.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Some good ideas there. Soft jaws and a boxford chuck if all else fails, graduate spindle etc. Hopefully I'll just make the insert. If I do and make more than one I shall let the forum know in case others want one.

Colchester are a good lathe, can be a bit noisy with straight gears. They are now owned by the 600 group. So called because all their spares start at 600 quid!

 

[J-G]

if all else fails I'll make my own insert, my neighbour regularly screwcuts in an aerospace factory so I'll get him around to help. I renovated this last year, it had a broken gearbox and several collapsed bearings
Andy

!!! with kit of that magnitude available, (can you tell I'm jealous?) I'm surprised that you even considered looking for commercially available inserts

Screw-cutting, like many other 'specialist' operations (Ball-Turning comes to mind) is only daunting until you have done it successfully a few times. Thread pitches of 6 tpi or 3mm do need some 'grunt' but that won't be an issue for the Colchester.

 

[graduate_owner]

I bought a spare graduate spindle because (a) I had a graduate at the time and (b) it was cheap, around £15, so I thought it might be useful. I didn't have my colchester master then.

What you need though is a boxford spindle, or whatever else uses the 1 1/2 x 8 thread. Or, as has been suggested by those who are green with envy at your colchester AND your repair skills ( me for instance!!) you could just cut an external thread on a plain bar and use that in your colchester as I do. The thing is though, can you get a woodturning chuck with thread to suit the viceroy? Peter Child do the Patriot chuck, with the comment ' please enquire' beside the thread you need, so if your kit doesn't come with a chuck then this may be a source.

Since you have stripped down a colchester, do you have any idea why mine should be refusing to cut threads? I have an experienced friend who has tried it and still no joy, so it's not my ham fistedness. The tool cuts the right thread pattern but does not align up for subsequent cuts. It is an imperial lathe, and 6 tpi whitworth that I have been so there shouldn't even be a need to use the thread indicator, although I have done so but still multi start threads.

When took possession of the lathe I thought the thread on the half nut was damaged so friend and I ( but mainly friend, with me watching) stripped down the apron etc and freed up the half nut eccentric cam. The half nut appeared fine. I didn't try screw cutting for a while, but when I did, well, these multi start issues came to the surface.

Any ideas?

P.S. I just took another look at your photograph and you seem to have most of what you need, as in outboard face plate ( mine was missing) and tool rest supports etc. Your tailstock is different to mine, much shorter, but looks the same as in lathes.co pictures. I don't know if that tailstock has adjustment for alignment. Perhaps it's not needed.

K

 

[Farmer Giles]

Thanks for the kind remarks about the lathe chaps. I was lucky with gearbox as I could replace the selectors using keyhole surgery with forceps through a hole in the headstock revealed by taking a layshaft out, so I didn't have to dismantle the lot - that would have been a challenge! Just so you hate me more, it cost £250 for the lathe, £100 quid in second hand spares and bearings and about 50 quid for paint etc. so £400 all in, plus about 6 months effort

Do you have a dial thread indicator on your master? It allows you to wind back to the correct starting point, allegedly. I don't have one, I missed one on the bay for 20 quid last year and since then they have been going for silly money.

EDIT Doh! I missed the bit about not needing a dial indicator for 6tpi!

 

[J-G]

...do you have any idea why mine should be refusing to cut threads? I have an experienced friend who has tried it and still no joy, so it's not my ham-fistedness. The tool cuts the right thread pattern but does not align up for subsequent cuts. It is an imperial lathe, and 6 tpi whitworth that I have been so there shouldn't even be a need to use the thread indicator, although I have done so but still multi start threads.

When took possession of the lathe I thought the thread on the half nut was damaged so friend and I ( but mainly friend, with me watching) stripped down the apron etc and freed up the half nut eccentric cam. The half nut appeared fine. I didn't try screw cutting for a while, but when I did, well, these multi start issues came to the surface.

Any ideas?

Since all 'Masters' had a 6tpi Leadscrew you are quite correct about not needing to bother about the thread indicator (when cutting 6tpi). One issue that I have read about is the fact that the apron is open at the bottom and operators tend to forget that the lead-screw/nut needs lubricating manually so there may be wear on the half nut (I know you've checked it but I assume 'visually'). You could try keeping the nut engaged and at the end of each cut, withdraw the tool and reverse the spindle - taking it well past the start so that any back-lash is removed.

I have to do this on my Myford S7 when cutting metric threads (most of the time) - a small inconvenience but it works.

Apologies if this is 'teaching Granny'

 

[Farmer Giles]

Its a bit steep at 44 quid but you can get the 1-1/2" x 8 adapter for the patriot, thanks G_O for putting me on to that

EDIT, you can select the chuck with any insert for the same prices, £176, interesting. I'll still wait until it is nestled in the workshop first

 

[graduate_owner]

With your colchester up and running, you could save £44 and get some thread cutting practice at the same time. You know what to do !!
Thanks for the advice regarding the thread cutting. Do you know if the half nut can be adequately lubricated by oiling the lead screw, or is it too late for that now? I did buy a new half nut before dismantling, assuming mine was defective so I can change it, but it is a bit of a performance and I'm hoping that is not the fault.

I did try keeping the half nut engaged as you suggested but it still goes out of sync. It doesn't make sense to me. I was wondering if one of those cameras on a stalk would be able to get in and allow me to see what is happening.

K

 

[TFrench]

That colchester is a beauty! Jammy so n so!

 

[flh801978]

Keith
If you engage the half nut with the lathe stationary try and then turn the carriage hand wheel there should be no appreciable movement at the cutting tool...that will show you that the half nut is ok.if there is movement check that you are engaging all the way down on the lead screw handle.
The only other thing is you have got the gearbox selecter in imperial rather than metric ?
If that's wrong it will go out of sync
Ian