Hi folks , I have been asked by a friend to make some kitchen shelves out of scaffold boards , I would be joining 2 (9" boards) together to get the width & my question is , what is the best way to do it . I have tried unsuccessfully in the past at biscuit jointing , but what I did have success at was using a router cutter to put a slot all or most of the way along the length & then either thicknessing a piece to glue in , or I have a vague idea we may have even used ply to slot in as a full length biscuit . The boards will start off at 225mm x 36mm , if I get the chance then I may put them through a thicknesser & take a couple of mm off , or I will belt sand them . Length will be about 1200mm x 440? x 30 something. Are there any guidelines on widths or lengths of shelves , I don't know what sort of weight she is planning to put on these shelves . I am thinking of putting battens under 3 sides of these shelves as they will be in an alcove & it will just be the front edge of the shelves that will not be supported . If I go down this route , can I make these battens a bit decorative ( any ideas) & should I go down this route . I may have missed out some details you need to know & I am a keen DIYER as opposed to you professionals , so please bear with me . PS I think the boards are made from whitewood (spruce?) The boards are new 13ft & cost about £10 each , thanks , Tony
Joining boards
- Thread starter tony
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RogerS
Established Member
Google the Sagulator...that will let you calculate all of this.
RobinBHM
Established Member
I would have thought biscuit jointing is as good as any other method.
Biscuits are only really for location, the strength comes from the glue joint, a fair size on a 36mm thick board.
What problems did you find with the biscuit jointing that has put you off?
Biscuits are only really for location, the strength comes from the glue joint, a fair size on a 36mm thick board.
What problems did you find with the biscuit jointing that has put you off?
I found the whole thing very awkward , ive watched it on you tube & it looks (probably is) simple , but I had a job trying to get everything to line up , so I gave up & sold the biscuit jointer
Personally I'd rebate and glue them, no need for biscuits or other locating methods, a mechanical join and additional glue surface.
With regards to making battens decorative, it depends on the rest of the decor really, I'd be tempted to use battens with dentil moulding (see below), to add a feeling of regularity, whilst not being too traditional (I sense the classic ovolos and ogees would be out of place holding up scaffold boards), they can be built up by gluing and pinning blocks followed by adding a strip of wood across the top.
In-keeping with a modernist feel ou could also try a regularly shaped, corbel as seen in art Deco interiors for more visual interest.
Or maybe something with very simple fluting.
With regards to making battens decorative, it depends on the rest of the decor really, I'd be tempted to use battens with dentil moulding (see below), to add a feeling of regularity, whilst not being too traditional (I sense the classic ovolos and ogees would be out of place holding up scaffold boards), they can be built up by gluing and pinning blocks followed by adding a strip of wood across the top.
In-keeping with a modernist feel ou could also try a regularly shaped, corbel as seen in art Deco interiors for more visual interest.
Or maybe something with very simple fluting.
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
tony":29lm55oh said:
Bear in mind that scaffold boards are intended to take weights like a large brickie with a pile of bricks and a barrow-load of mortar. I rather doubt your friend will cause much sag over a 1200mm length, even if she stood on it!
Why bother with splines, biscuits or whatever? Modern glues are strong, so just jointing the edges of the boards and glueing them together should be more than adequate - after all, 30mm/1 1/4" is quite a substantial thickness for a shelf! If alignment is a concern, a couple of dowels or small stub tenons should be adequate.
custard
Established Member
A proficient craftsman will rarely use splines or biscuits when edge jointing two boards. it's not necessary for strength and it removes all your options going forward (i.e. you can't rip the glued boards down the glue line if you decide to reconfigure the layout, nor can you cross cut to an unplanned width without the risk of exposing the spline or biscuits). The proficient craftsman may use one or two unglued biscuits or dowels purely as location aids if he's short handed, but most times he won't bother and rely on his own skill to get the job done right.
However, if you don't have either the skill or the machinery that replaces that skill, then best to recognise that up front and use some sort of jointing aid like a spline or a biscuit.
As has already been pointed out, with components like these you can forget about sagging. Maximum deflection with typical kitchen loads won't be more than a fraction of a mill. Even thicknessed down from 30mm to 20mm they'd still be massively over engineered.
However, if you don't have either the skill or the machinery that replaces that skill, then best to recognise that up front and use some sort of jointing aid like a spline or a biscuit.
As has already been pointed out, with components like these you can forget about sagging. Maximum deflection with typical kitchen loads won't be more than a fraction of a mill. Even thicknessed down from 30mm to 20mm they'd still be massively over engineered.
novocaine
Established Member
From experience, if the boards are new they will buck, bow and twist as they dry out inside a house (they are normally around the 30% moisture level), so acclimate the boards before you start anything. (normally cut with some of the centre grain of the tree so the warp can be pretty significant). older boards are going to be seasoned and shouldn't move to much more than they already have but don't put them near a bladed tool, they will be full of all sorts of nasties.
If she's after super smooth finish then flatten the boards, joint the edges and glue up, as said, no reason for adding more steps than that. 1200mm is maximum span for a 38mm scaffold board when being used as such. as said, thats to support a load of a fat brickie and his lunch, with a reasonable deflection though (can't remember what the max deflection allowed is though)
edit: also to add, be prepared for it to be the worst wood you have ever worked with.
If she's after super smooth finish then flatten the boards, joint the edges and glue up, as said, no reason for adding more steps than that. 1200mm is maximum span for a 38mm scaffold board when being used as such. as said, thats to support a load of a fat brickie and his lunch, with a reasonable deflection though (can't remember what the max deflection allowed is though)
edit: also to add, be prepared for it to be the worst wood you have ever worked with.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
^^^ As last comment. The shelves aren't huge - can't they be done in decent timber? If you are getting paid for the job any saving on material will be taken up by the increase in time taken. Why not have nicer job for the same cost?
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
They don't need to be joined at all.
I agree - why put the effort in craap materials?
I agree - why put the effort in craap materials?
I'm guessing your friend is after the rustic look? If not, I'd strongly suggest you persuade them to rethink and source better materials!
As learning projects I've made a tabletop, shelves and even a bedside cabinet out of cheap knackered scaffold boards. Winding, twisting, cupping etc. all provide challenges when you're trying to preserve the knackeredness of the boards i.e. as soon as you try and get them squared up you are in real danger of making areas of the wood look "good as new".
For the tabletop I did use biscuits to help align the boards. They were all slightly different thicknesses (we're talking millimetres) so I went with biscuits (indexed of the top sides) to help keep the top relatively flat. You could get away without doing that though so long as you're mindful of any varying thicknesses.
Ditch any bits with splits as they will only grow. I learned how to do splines as a result of not knowing this at the time... and this was after having them indoors (how SWMBO loved that!) for a few weeks.
As others have already said, scaffold boards will have all manner of things in them: nails, staples, stones etc. If you want to put blades near them then pressure wash them, scrub them with a stiff brush then run a metal detector over them to find any metal bit and dig them out first.
Unless you're friend really wants rough 'n' ready shelving you'd be doing yourself a favour and steering them towards even PAR pine which you can then manually roughen up and make look old and knackered.
As learning projects I've made a tabletop, shelves and even a bedside cabinet out of cheap knackered scaffold boards. Winding, twisting, cupping etc. all provide challenges when you're trying to preserve the knackeredness of the boards i.e. as soon as you try and get them squared up you are in real danger of making areas of the wood look "good as new".
For the tabletop I did use biscuits to help align the boards. They were all slightly different thicknesses (we're talking millimetres) so I went with biscuits (indexed of the top sides) to help keep the top relatively flat. You could get away without doing that though so long as you're mindful of any varying thicknesses.
Ditch any bits with splits as they will only grow. I learned how to do splines as a result of not knowing this at the time... and this was after having them indoors (how SWMBO loved that!) for a few weeks.
As others have already said, scaffold boards will have all manner of things in them: nails, staples, stones etc. If you want to put blades near them then pressure wash them, scrub them with a stiff brush then run a metal detector over them to find any metal bit and dig them out first.
Unless you're friend really wants rough 'n' ready shelving you'd be doing yourself a favour and steering them towards even PAR pine which you can then manually roughen up and make look old and knackered.
I recently did a favour for a friend of a friend which was plane and glue up some new scaffold boards.
I was pleasantly surprised how good the timber looked !
For joining I just used pu glue and butt joints. A few test breaks showed the glue joint to be stronger than the wood surrounding it
Coley
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
I was pleasantly surprised how good the timber looked !
For joining I just used pu glue and butt joints. A few test breaks showed the glue joint to be stronger than the wood surrounding it
Coley
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
novocaine
Established Member
the bench I made came up good, but it's still a pig to work with. I jointed 2 boards then used mortice and tenons for the lower shelf and a large dovetail for the top. it worked but I wouldn't say it was the best of timbers to work with. I used it because I wanted that look, if I was doing it again, I'd consider a different look.
Thanks for all the good advice so far , I did not realise that a glued up butt joint would suffice . I plan on using new boards & hope they should be free of nasties . My friend is on a tight budget & that is why we are going down this route , I am doing this as a favour for her . Although it is an old house , she wants the boards cleaned up & im not sure if she wants a finish on them . I will take the advice & leave them indoors for a good while , I have an aldi moisture meter if that's any good & to be trusted . Will probably think of something else to ask once ive signed out ! Cheers for now , T
nick winfield
Established Member
Hi have you tried festool dominoes they would work
Mark A
Established Member
nick winfield":v3p3ftqq said:
Buy a £600 tool to join 20 quid-worth of timber?
No skills
Established Member
Don't know if they would survive all that hammering, their made from some sort of plastic I think. What glue would you use for them? Don't know where you get £600 from, their about £3.99 a set from eBay.
As for the shelves..
If the shelves need a certain 'look' but will be covered in books or whatever can you not make them from another material (other timber/plywood/mdf) and just lip them with bits of scaff board?
As for the shelves..
If the shelves need a certain 'look' but will be covered in books or whatever can you not make them from another material (other timber/plywood/mdf) and just lip them with bits of scaff board?
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