Jet DC1100A Extractor and Filter Cartridge - PACKAGE DEAL

[user 19915]

Hi i.m thinking of changing my Jet DC1100A Extractor and Filter Cartridge - PACKAGE DEAL for a more power full extractor it;s like new i haven;t even filled the bottom of the extractor bag it cost )
£599.95 a few month;s ago. Any suggestions on a more power full machine ?? ill be loosing nearly 20 percent they have suggested a
DC1900A ps i need one to run on single phase ??/

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[PAC1]

This would have been my second choice http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... -extractor
The technical performance seems good but the quality is iffy. Axminster have done a better one but it is twice the price

 

[user 19915]

Yes iv.e been looking at that one i think she will be better for small dust particles THE AIR FLOW ON THE ONE IV.E GOT IS 1,620 m³/hr @ 150mm AND THE ONE YOU ARE SHOWING ME IS 2,300m³/hr IF I BOUGHT THE ONE THEY SUGGESTED IT WOULD BE 2,900m³/hr @ 200mm BUT AGAIN I WOULD WANT THE FINER FILTERS ON THE TOP ?????

 

[PAC1]

I would have liked the new version of it but I can not justify the price for my use. If you can change the drops on your ductwork to 150mm you will see a massive improvement. I have a 150 drop that is making light work of everything from my fielder it is sucking 559cfm and I have a 100mm drop to my bandsaw which is sucking around 250cfm even with the drop to the felder fully closed. The problem with HVLP is it needs a good air flow as soon as it is restricted the performance nosedives.

 

[PAC1]

If you do not need to fine a filter Felder do some big volume machines fairly cheap. Even with a fine filter it will not break the bank

 

[user 19915]

MY drop;s are 4 in from 6 in ill post a few photos tomorrow if i remember

 

[PAC1]

Mock, look at it in mathematical terms. The Jet can move air at about 4000ft per minute. I tested mine and confirmed the figure mine did 4300 but let us stick with 4000 for ease of maths. So a 6" pipe has cross section of 28 Sq inches and a 4" pipe has a csa of 12 sq inches. Therefore at 4000ft per minute the 6" pipe will suck 4000x28/144 cfm or 778cfm you have bends etc so you might get 500 to 600cfm. This is a good figure for dust extraction as it will get most fine dust as well as all the chipping. When you put a 4" drop on the air does not compress so instead of the air going faster up the 4" pipe it slows down. This is because at 4000ft/m and a 12"csa we get 4000x12/144 or 333cfm in theory with bends etc say 250cfm (which matches my testing). At the fan the air flow drops from say 600cfm to 250cfm thus you will here the fan is not coping it is starved of air the pressure and air flow drop! Also 250cfm is not enough for good dust extraction as you are finding. If all you do is fit a bigger fan and motor it might not help. You need a greater velocity to increase the cfm. I bought a cheap air flow tester on Amazon (£20) from this you can see what flows at 6" and what flows at 4". The test results I have are in line with the maths. You might find the answer is to fit 6" ducts as your drops not replace the unit.

 

[user 19915]

I v.e been talking to Kevin in .axminster today regarding my ducting extra and he also told me my y drops are the wrong way around have a look see what you think ?

 

[user 19915]

Also my reply by email from Axminster
Dear Mr
Thank you for your recent enquiry [ID#96821] dated 18/04/2015.
A thumb of rule with ducting, is that the bigger the diameter requires a larger airflow due to the air mass held within the ducting together with distance, the extractor will need to produce a lot of force to move the waste captured in the pipe.
The diameter will need to be reduced down to maintain sufficient airflow hence greater waste removal. I am unsure to what machines you have in your workshop and there outlet size, but to make the DC1100 effective, then the 150mm pipe with a reduction and 45 deg Y fittings with short drop downs. Are you using blastgates on the drop downs.
Airflow is key with extraction, and with any system obtaining pressure with good airflow it has to measured at the furthest point. Have you been able to measure the Pascals pressure at the furthest point.

 

[PAC1]

The drops look the right way around to me as it forms a Y with a more gently branch. The alternative would be a very severe 135 degree bend.
looking at the last picture I see you have flexi from the fan to the start of the duct. The ribs on the Flexi causes a lot of turbulence. So the first question is can you replace it with duct or can you stand the machine much closer so that there is only 6 -12" of flexi between the duct and the fan. Also what diameter is the flexi?
Second looking at the arrangement do you need the ductwork would you be better just moving the machine closer to the machine in use?

 

[user 19915]

FLEXI FROM THE EXTRACTOR TO THE PIPE WORK 150MM AND FROM THE DROP 100MM AND I HAVE BEEN THINKING OF PUTTING THE EXTRACTOR MORE IN THE MIDDLE WITH A 6IN Y SPLIT AND A 6IN BLAST GATE ON EACH SIDE ANY SUGGESTIONS

 

[wcndave]

Did you get this sorted in the end? Looking to purchase the DC1100A.

 

[user 19915]

Well they took the extractor back to the work shop free of charge to check every thing was working as it should be and found nothing wrong
with the extractor .So it look,s like i was expecting to much from the machine i am now running the machine with 2 x 100 mm flexi pipe from the Y piece and yes it work.s fine on the thicknesser but it does not seam to be taking the saw dust away from the mitre saw as good as i hoped . Iv,e set up a flexi from the extractor under the work bench as where i cut a hole out and attached a hopper to the bench and the saw dust seem.s to gather around the hopper yes some of the dust goes in but again not as much as i was expecting
Please note other,s recommend this machine as i,m only a novice and on a learning curve
hope this help,s Mock

 

[wcndave]

I've only got experience with High Pressure systems, I have a shop vac, going through a separator (which only really catches large material from planer). I connect the separator to my machines, or to a duct network of 63mm (2.5") pipework, with at least 5m runs, and 8 blast gates.

That works pretty well, I think High Pressure Vacuum systems are better for ducting (?), although with a shop vac you can't really do large volumes of waste, or more than 2.5" ducting.

This extracts from my router table, lathe (sanding only), bobbin sander, belt sander, woodrat, mitre saw.

I also use the vac through separator for power tools.

By the way, mitre saws are notoriously hard to collect from, from what I can tell. Also I think with chip extractors you'd need the particles to be in the air flow, as they're low pressure, hence the need for a machine to have a good mechanism for getting particles to the air stream.

And, I also connect it to my planer, where it does an "ok" job, however a lot gets through to the vac and clogs it up, and I tried to connect to table saw, and nothing really happened.

I also put soil pipe under the floor to go to machines in centre (TS / P/T), and it does nothing when using my vac, it's too big.

For 10cm pipes, I am not 100% certain whether a good HPLV system (not a shop vac), like a twin motor Record system would be better than a chip extractor.

I know I've hijacked your thread, and going on a bit, however I am also trying to get this clear in my own head!

So, I could have:

1. A wall mounted double motor Record Power system (best vac system they have)
- use it for both my 63mm ducted system, and for 10cm ducted large waste removal from TS / P/T
- replaces my shop vac for 63mm ducted system
- use shop vac for power tools only

- will it do a good job on both, or is it a compromise that won't do a great job on TS / P/T through 10cm ducting?

2. Get a chip extractor - eg the DC1100A Vortex Jet
- use it exclusively for TS / P/T
- Keep using shop vac for the 63mm ducting.

- can i reduce the DC1100A to a 63mm ducting system? I'd put a fine filter cartridge on of course.

For the moment I am leaning towards option 2, as I do find I have both a lot of waste from P/T (which is a pain to empty) and a lot of dust from TS which I am unable to clear at source.

 

[PAC1]

Dave
The DC1100A would be virtually useless using 63mm ducting.
I have mine connected to 150mm ducting connected to my CF741 Felder and it does an excellent job of collecting saw dust as well as chippings. I step it down to 100mm for my bandsaw and there is a marked difference in suck.
The problem is the Low Pressure units work well with large air volumes. The natural thought is if I can get that volume through a 63mm pipe it should leave my workshop as clean as a whistle, it does not work like that. The low pressure units do not speed up the air flow to compensate for the smaller diameter in fact it seems to me the with the small diameter the fan is starved of air and simply does not function.
If you get the DC1100A get the biggest ducts you can 150mm is perfect, 125mm OK when you get to 100mm it is starting to struggle and certainly is massively less efficient then 150mm.
I like the vortex cone it works very well and I have found the fine filter to be excellent. I have had it well over 6 months and I am amazed at the improvement in air quality in my workshop.
It is a great value machine if you can get the ducts to balance the airflow.

 

[wcndave]

Thanks, Well I have a soil pipe under the floor, embedded in concrete, so it's going to have to work off 10cm, or I go for a high pressure system. I just need to borrow one and see if it works - fancy popping over to Italy with yours in your hand luggage?

 

[PAC1]

The trip to Italy sounds like a good idea except for the excess baggage fee that would be charged!
If you have your duct system in the floor I think I would look for something with a greater airspeed. The Jet says it is around 4000ft/m which is fine with 150mm ducts as you can get 750 -900 cfm. However my 100mm branch is way down at 250 - 300 cfm. That is not really good enough for your needs.
The Jet DC1900 or the Felder AF16 or 22 might work for you it can be used with a fine filter but does not have a Vortex cone. The airspeed is higher which should improve the cfm.

 

[wcndave]

Hey PAC, just looking at your maths, which seems reasonable, and then the Jet catalog.

So they list the 1100A as 1620m3/h at 150mm duct, and 1150 for 100mm duct. So, i did some conversion, to get this to cfm...

953cfm at 6"
676cfm at 4"

yet taking your maths, which assume airflow is constant, and one simply multiplies into the surface area, that doesn't stack up. 953 at 6" would become 422 at 4", not the 676 they state.

Also the 1100A has 2x4" outlets, so I'd need two runs for a machine...

Then looking at the 1900 it states 2900m3/h @ 200mm diameter. that comes out at 1706cfm.
however if we take the ratio down to 4" we get 423cfm, which is the same as the maths would tell us the 1100A is.

Something doesn't stack up somewhere.

What was the cheap airflow device you got off amazon? one for kites and sailors and fishing?

thanks again
Dave

 

[PAC1]

The 676 cfm is just not realistic unless they are measuring both ducts.
I agree 953 is the theoretical figure for 6" pipes I get about 700cfm which I am happy with. I agree with your calcs as theoretical 422cfm for 100mm but I have not been able to get anywhere near in reality on 100mm single duct.
The 2 x 100mm on the Jet is just a Y junction. I would think if you just have one connected it will be starved of air.
I bought a cheap chinese airflow meter on amazon it is good to check the flow

 

[wcndave]

Do you know which meter? when it comes to cheap chinese stuff it's 95% miss in the game of hit and miss, so recommendations always good.

I guess my head scratching is coming from the fact that the maths is wrong one way or the other. The Jet figures would seem to indicate that air speed changes somewhat rather than being a fixed variable. I can always abandon my under floor tube (it's just the one soil one, my 2.5" duct network is all in the open), however my machines all have 4" ports, so at _some point_ the airflow is going to get reduced, even if I put in 4" ducting.

I think I'll give the 1100A a go, worst case I can always wheel it over an connect it with 12" of 6" pipe, it's bound to do _something_ like that ;-)