Japanese kitchen knives...sharpening?

[Shrubby]

Rob
Go to Kappabashi-Dori (kitchenware town) in Tokyo
Matt

 

[Kalimna]

For my jap knives (the slope started with a Shun from JKC at a Good Food Show - it now includes a Murata gyuto, an Itou malachite gyuto, Tanaka nakiri and a couple of others...), I just use the same synthetic waterstones as I use for plane/chisel blades. Bizarrely, given my predilection for jig sharpening, I do the knives freehand and have found the edges to be somewhat scalpel like without losing the curved edge of the gyutos' and santoku. Start at 800 grit and finish on 10000, and guestimate the sharpening angle as that which would lift the back of the knife by 1-2 pound coins worth of height. Interestingly, I find the Shun (damascus around a stainless VG10 core) not nearly as easy to get scalpel sharp as the Murata (carbon steel) or Tanaka (VG10 again, but dont quote me...)
I also bought a couple of natural waterstones from Dick, but I dont get on very well with them....

A dangerous slope indeed, though I no longer wince when the blades get stained (with onions frequently...), maybe I need a new knife???

One knife I havent resharpened yet is a 24cm takohicki (I think correct spelling), which is rather slender and single bevel, which I seem to have set up a mental block over...Hmmm.,.


Cheers,
Adam

 

[woodbloke]

A dangerous slope indeed...
Adam

No chance of that happening here 8-[ :---) 8-[ - Rob

 

[turnamere]

Just spotted this thread and having been given some top knife care tips from Jay, the founder of the Japanes Knife Company, I thought that I'd share them.

During a recent afternoon out at the Mylor Oyster Festival, and having passed the car keys to SWMBO so that I could sample some of Skinner's finest ale, I found myself next to the JKC stall as the gentleman running the stall was settling down with some blades, waterstones and a water bath. Since I have struggled keeping an edge on my smaller japanes steel knives I decided to watch and learn. As Kalimna posted previously the angle for a good knife is estimated by lifting the back of the blade by the thickness of two pound coins (three pound coins for lesser quality), working the blade equally on both sides before removing the burr and working up the grits. His final trick was to strop the knife on newspaper; the black ink contains a high level of carbon. I have since tried this at home and it works well. He concluded by skinning a tomato and then proceded to slice the skin three further times into unfeasibly thin gossamer layers. =D>

He has posted some informative videos here: http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/VIDEOS.aspx

I enjoyed it so much that I ended up buying a Santoku (general purpose knife) which is much sharper than, and retains its edge better than, my Porsche Chroma knives.

 

[thick_mike]

Who would have thought Spike Milligan would know so much about sharpening knives!

 

[bugbear]

Just spotted this thread and having been given some top knife care tips from Jay, the founder of the Japanes Knife Company, I thought that I'd share them.

During a recent afternoon out at the Mylor Oyster Festival, and having passed the car keys to SWMBO so that I could sample some of Skinner's finest ale, I found myself next to the JKC stall as the gentleman running the stall was settling down with some blades, waterstones and a water bath. Since I have struggled keeping an edge on my smaller japanes steel knives I decided to watch and learn. As Kalimna posted previously the angle for a good knife is estimated by lifting the back of the blade by the thickness of two pound coins (three pound coins for lesser quality), working the blade equally on both sides before removing the burr and working up the grits. His final trick was to strop the knife on newspaper; the black ink contains a high level of carbon. I have since tried this at home and it works well. He concluded by skinning a tomato and then proceded to slice the skin three further times into unfeasibly thin gossamer layers. =D>

He has posted some informative videos here: http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/VIDEOS.aspx

I enjoyed it so much that I ended up buying a Santoku (general purpose knife) which is much sharper than, and retains its edge better than, my Porsche Chroma knives.

That's fancy sharpening; try this from Murray Carter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLaE1JvQ94

Now THAT'S basic!

Admittedly, he spent 18 years in Japan learning to make it look that easy...

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/murray-carter-knives.html

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

My Grandmother used to sharpen her knives on the back doorstep which was probably Millstone Grit.
The knives used to wear down pretty quick!

Rod

 

[Benchwayze]

I find Draper 'Craft' knives are great for scoring the leg of pork before it goes in the oven. :mrgreen:

 

[Kalimna]

16-20hours in low oven for shoulder of pork, and you need a spoon, not a knife, to serve it..... Think I might do that at the weekend
Adam

 

[Benchwayze]

Don't forget to eat the fat then Adam. It's good for you! I eat it as I carve! Shhluurrrrp!
And rub plenty of salt into the skin, for crispy crackling! Drooool!

 

[sometimewoodworker]

A dangerous slope indeed, though I no longer wince when the blades get stained (with onions frequently...), maybe I need a new knife???

Cheers,
Adam

yes and Jamanese by Kyocera. You need ceramic knives for the soft stuff.

 

[turnamere]

16-20hours in low oven for shoulder of pork, and you need a spoon, not a knife, to serve it..... Think I might do that at the weekend
Adam

Better still done low and slow on the barbecue (indirect) with plenty of woodchips - this has become one of our favourite weekend meals.

I took a whole shoulder of pork, divided it in two, butterflied it and rubbed one generously with home-made jerk marinade (2 Scotch Bonnets) and the other with a mix of ginger, corriander, grated parmesan and chilli (Scotch Bonnet again). Left to infuse over night and then given most of the day on the trusty Webber with plenty of cherry wood chunks (well soaked). Started hot to get the crackling going and then reduced to render the fat down. Served the jerk with 'rice and peas' and the ginger with pasta and tomato sauce.

 

[Kalimna]

Hmm, not sure I want to go down the ceramic blade route - how do you sharpen them??? And do they not have a shattering habit when dropped accidentally? Neat colours though

I like the BBQ pork idea, but our weber is a gas one - not sure it's worth the gas. Might try the marinade though and do as I normally would....
Adam

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Ceramics apparently have to be returned to the manufacturer for sharpening.

 

[Harbo]

No - ceramics can be sharpened on waterstones or diamonds.
I have one and don't really like it - the edges are a bit fragile. Supposed to be good for onions etc as the do not absorb smells?

Rod

 

[bugbear]

No - ceramics can be sharpened on waterstones or diamonds.
I have one and don't really like it - the edges are a bit fragile. Supposed to be good for onions etc as the do not absorb smells?

Rod

Never had a problem on onions, and I'm only using stainless clad VG10 knives. The ceramics certainly don't seem to have lived up to their "razor sharp forever"(*) initial hype.

BugBear

(*) how often do we hear that claim...

 

[sometimewoodworker]

No - ceramics can be sharpened on waterstones or diamonds.
I have one and don't really like it - the edges are a bit fragile. Supposed to be good for onions etc as the do not absorb smells?

Rod

Better for tomatoes. The blade is unaffected by the acid unlike the high carbon section of the other Japanese knives.