It's 'Help an eejit Day' again. 110 'infill' advice please!

[ED65]

Okay here's another tip for you since you're going ahead with making your own. Your oven probably doesn't hold temperature very well, most don't including high-end models. So put a roasting dish full of dry sand in the oven when you're heating it up, this acts as a heat sink and helps to smooth out the ups and downs of the oven's thermostat (assuming electric here). Ideally this would be coupled with using an oven thermometer because you'd scarcely believe how far off the dial setting can be from what temperature the oven itself is actually heating to, reportedly as much as 40°C.

Another option: does the missus have one of those thermometers that clip on the side of a saucepan? A possibly much more accurate way of annealing to get a specific hardness is to use a pan of hot oil, particularly if you have a gas cooker.

In either case my advice would be to be conservative, as if the iron ends up too hard for your liking you can simply re-anneal. You can do this any number of times without penalty.

Best of luck!

 

[Bm101]

Sooooo. A little update on progress.
Well tbh it's going surprisingly well so far. Time is like golddust and magic beans in my life. There's never enough of it spare. But I got a whole day on it over the weekend. Aw Yisss. 8) I'm like Karl Holtey on Dexedrine. That includes the shakes, delusions and paranoia mind you without the skill, talent or knowledge.

So. It's been a learning curve.

And what have we learnt? Tru oil. I've seen it mentioned many times. 'It's amazing! Yaaaay!' So I bit the bullet. Bought the filler and the finish. But it is amazing. It's wonderful stuff. It's Charlie and the chocolate factory stuff. On went a few coats of filler. The mahogany is a bit gappy. I followed the instructions even. On went the coats of sealer. 8 odd coats in all and wire wool inbetween. Final coat, beautiful day, left it on the patio table, went for a cider came out to see my 2 year old drawing smiley faces in the gloss finish. *sigh, fetches wire wool. :|
The steel turned up and that was cut. Tidied up on the Clarkey for which I have bought some new belts. Then I faced the grind with no jigs or help from God. The dilemma: wack it on the lidles grinding wheel or the Clarkey? Both could chew it up like Jabba the Hutt facing a roast chicken.
Easy choice. The everloved Clarkey it is!
Aiming for a 25 odd degree angle I swung my hips like a South American Salsa King. Didn't take long and there you go, you got the hang of it. Gotta be in it to win it.
Changed the belt up to Ninja and polished all the edges and so on.

So. Still have to heat treat the blade. No worries. Mwahahahhahah. :shock:
Bought a lump of brass on ebay for £20 quid last night. Fingers working faster than the brain. 8.75'' x 4'' x 5/8'' Should do for a few lever caps!
Incidentally the brass screw and gubbins come gratis from a building site. Might be possible to epoxy them....

Then, just as it was getting easy I started looking into acid etching.... :|
Oh yeh. Files. 3 new ones from WH. The Narex ones cos I need to feed my kids. Revelation!

 

[Bm101]

July? Really? Dear God. I don't get a lot of time to mess stuff up for a hobby but I can't quite believe it was July I made my last post on this. In real life lots of stuff has been done on the house and working 6/7 day weeks, blah blah blah but when I've had a minute I've been putting in a little time on this when I can.
So. Where were we?



Ah yeh. Heat treating the blade. So I got all the stuff in, charcoal, a bit of oil for quenching. Then one night when the family was out and I was only a risk to myself and the neighbours I lit the fire pit, got the Mrs' hairdryer drank a load of cider and went at it viking style. Graaaaah!

I pulled out the steel and dipped it in my warm oil like an Italian Lover.

Job done. Scratch tested the blade. All good. But now I needed to temper the blade. I used ED65's genius and put a sand heatsink in the oven. This (by my guess by colour change in the steel), raised the oven to 370 odd degrees from its 250 max. I'd achieved blue steel! Woot. Tempered!

All pleased with myself I took a photo or two to show how clever I was.

Then I dropped it on the patio and chipped the corner off.
Really. #-o

One question I have is that one small the back of the blade went like this... it's since been ground out but I'd love some enlightenment on this one for the sake of knowledge.

It was the only part of the blade to react like this. Anyhooo.

That's when I started looking into acid etching...

Meh.
More tomorrow, I'm tired. Drove to Southampton today, tomorrow the wonders of Ipswich await. (*Bated breath)
Tune in tomorrow to see how I got ripped off buying acid etch pens on ebay that turned out to be sanded down (really) Stadlater permanent markers for a fiver a pop. How I learnt to use a file card and Mary Berry Berry pops in to talk about 0000 wire wool.

 

[Bm101]

Extra points if you can work out which dinosaur that dog is. :roll:

 

[n0legs]

My apologies, my apologies. Can't believe I missed the July update, I would have commented then
I did catch the lever cap on the other thread, niiiiiiiccccceeeee :wink:
Well who'd have thunk a lowly old 110 can turn out like that =D>
Freaking love it, home heat treating for the mutha furrking win bro :lol:
My my, we have you on a slippery slope now. Back street mechanicing, you need this in your life 8)


The dog???
English Bull Terrier?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

A couple of points ...

You will need to shorten the rear infill, otherwise you cannot adjust the blade with a hammer (the blade is too short).

Here is a #3 Stanley where you can see the blade extends over the rear infill ..

The other point is that I cannot advise a wedge under a steel crossbar. What will gradually occur is that the bar will dent the wedge, and this will interfere with future adjustments.

If you look at Krenov crossbars, you will see that they have a flat section (that rides against the wedge) ...

The steel crossbar in the #110 is too narrow on which to file a flat. The thought I have is to inset a similar steel plate (cut up a scraper) to the top of a wooden wedge. That will prevent denting but still have some elasticity for wedging.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Bm101]

The dog???
English Bull Terrier?

Ha Ha! Yes! You did better than my Mrs. She looked at it like it was a Rorsach test. Even had it upside down at one point. :|
The quality is terrible tbh. The copper sulphate mix leached under the 'acid etch pens' i got off some snide on ebay. I put them to one side and didn't look to closely when they arrived. Do you ever notice something like 'these pens look like they've been sanded, that's odd' and then one of the kids falls down the stairs or drowns in a pond and you forget? This was one of those times. Turn's out on closer inspection they are just normal marker pens. I need to find a better ground ( the bit that stops the solution working on the metal). Good fun though and quite a fascinating thing to try out. I'll definitely get back to it at some point. But not just yet on this blade.
Cheap too. A couple of quid will get you set up with enough to get going off ebay and put your internet history on the NSA watchlist for 5 years.
Theres some good reading here http://www.nontoxicprint.com/thenewetchingchemistry.htm (With thanks again to Oakmitre who actually knows what he's doing).

 

[Bm101]

Derek, many thanks for replying. It's kind of you to take the time even if there's now a photo of one of your planes directly under a photo of my first attempt eternally stored on the internet. So thanks for that.
I read your post this morning sitting in my van and tbh my heart sank. There's a young Columbian lad who got the brunt of my mood about 10 minutes later. (Ooops)
But I got home and looked again and can you corrrect me if I'm wrong but are you talking about putting in a wooden wedge? I haven't really mentioned it I think on this thread so far because it's all a bit a*** about face time wise but I'm putting in a brass cap. I'm hoping this won't create the same issues. :|
Thanks again for the reply. Much appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

 

[Bm101]

Right, started so we might as well crack on. Lets wizz through.
Just quickly, the old blade size verus the new.

The brass turned up. Bit lumpy. May have over ordered a little but for £20 I'm set for a lever caps. For ever.

Feet planted. Out of breath. Quick have a cider and a fag or two and we're back at it.

Some time later and cursing every beggar in the world with machinery and my lack of gym membership, we find ourselves here.

What have we learnt? Buy a file card and some new files. :?
Also. If you file enough brass you start storing up gold dust. Just saying. Don't buy any gold dust off ebay in the next 4 weeks.

Thats it for tonight. This wip stuff is hard work.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Derek, many thanks for replying. It's kind of you to take the time even if there's now a photo of one of your planes directly under a photo of my first attempt eternally stored on the internet. So thanks for that.
I read your post this morning sitting in my van and tbh my heart sank. There's a young Columbian lad who got the brunt of my mood about 10 minutes later. (Ooops)
But I got home and looked again and can you corrrect me if I'm wrong but are you talking about putting in a wooden wedge? I haven't really mentioned it I think on this thread so far because it's all a bit a*** about face time wise but I'm putting in a brass cap. I'm hoping this won't create the same issues. :|
Thanks again for the reply. Much appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris

Yes, a brass lever cap would be ideal. I just wanted to warn you against a wooden wedge with the thin cross rod.

However, the rear infill still needs to be shorter than the blade projection otherwise you will not be able to adjust it forward or laterally with a hammer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Bm101]

Thanks again Derek.
That's put my mind at rest. If you wouldn't mind sparing a little more of your time could you take the time to explain something to me?
I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?
I thought you only needed a hammer to adjust a wooden plane type build where the iron was set with a wedge type arrangement. I'm not sure why I can't just adjust the blade by eye/feel using the cap lever much as I would with a bailey type frog but by hand and without all the benefits of a lateral adjuster etc. If i'm missing a trick (and it wouldn't be the first time) would you mind explaining why because I can't see what I'm missing. In my mind I undo the screw, get the blade set and then do up the screw while making sure the tightening doesn't skew the blade out. I just can't see where tapping with a hammer would help?

Thanks for the response, it's much appreciated as always.

Here's a pic that might explain what I mean but I can't help feeling I'm missing a trick.

Cheers
Chris

 

[Mr_P]

All depends on the user and the plane. I use both methods but it depends on the plane.

I bought a super cheap 110 with the wrong iron and a wooden wedge just for the iron thinjking it would be good for one of my chariots. It was so darn good it has stayed in the 110, the iron is super long but I've never felt the need to adjust with anything other than my hands. You won't have any problems with yours, especially as you have a screw down lever cap. In hindsight longer would have been better, easier to adjust and last longer but hey hum no worries.

Great work btw, very impressive for a first timer.

 

[Bm101]

Thanks Mr P. That clears it up for me and it's a relief to know. I felt the length of the blade was a fair trade off with comfort in the hand really. I have some more steel and was thinking to make a spare blade at some point ground at a different angle. I'll leave it a bit longer to compare. Thanks again.

 

[AndyT]

Gosh, that looks good!
And an especially impressive bit of hacksaw and file work on the lever cap. Give yourself a big pat on the back, Chris, if you still have the strength in your arms!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?

Hi Chris

Simply put, you will achieve greater precision from a tap of a hammer - laterally or to advance or withdraw the blade - than using your fingers. The type of hammer I use weighs 7 oz.

How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers?

I can advance a blade using a hammer as I push the plane forward. You cannot do that with fingers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Bm101]

Gosh, that looks good!
And an especially impressive bit of hacksaw and file work on the lever cap. Give yourself a big pat on the back, Chris, if you still have the strength in your arms!

Thanks Andy. That means a lot to me coming from you after all the help and knowledge you have shared with me so willingly. My first post on UKW was about how to seat a blade in a Record 4 1/2. It wasn't till a while later that I realised I had the blade upside down. 8th of September last year. (I just checked btw I'm not that sad). So the learning curve is steep but it's not insurmountable. First plane to making one (of sorts) in a year. Mind you I haven't finished the everlasting Roubo bench that I started building to build the oak porch.... This weekend is clear out the shed and reorganise defences. It's time to get on track again. At the moment I can feel Custard in the background Tsking! at me for getting sidelined. Time to get organised!
Btw Andy, I puzzled over cutting the initial groove for the bar. Didn't want to use the hacksaw and have it skipping, looked at all sorts of solutions like cramps and so on but I couldn't get round it. No space. Then I remembered some fella posting about a bit of eclipse kit. I looked online and found one for about two quid. Bit the sellers hand off lol. Thanks again. Job done as they say. :wink:

 

[Bm101]

I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?

Hi Chris

Simply put, you will achieve greater precision from a tap of a hammer - laterally or to advance or withdraw the blade - than using your fingers. The type of hammer I use weighs 7 oz.

How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers?

I can advance a blade using a hammer as I push the plane forward. You cannot do that with fingers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks again Derek for your patience.
I'm not at a stage of expertise where I would even be aware of adjusting the blade mid cut although I can see the sense in it in theory and it's given me summat to think about. Thanks again for your response, as always it's insightful, experienced and reasoned. I'll start work on a longer blade when I get a little time. Just goes to show I suppose the level of experience. To make a thing is one thing. To make it to do the best job requires more experience than I can muster at the moment.

 

[AndyT]

Ah, the 4S - a great bit of kit and it sounds like you got one at a very good price!

 

[Mr_P]

Woodworking isn't a one size fits all hobby. What works for you might not work for me.

If I had my Fathers tough hands I might use David Barrons approach to adjusting an iron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEFINBfhb4

Maybe my hands will toughen up before my eye sight fails any further, don't you just love middle age.

 

[Mr_P]

I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?

Hi Chris

Simply put, you will achieve greater precision from a tap of a hammer - laterally or to advance or withdraw the blade - than using your fingers. The type of hammer I use weighs 7 oz.

How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers?

I can advance a blade using a hammer as I push the plane forward. You cannot do that with fingers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Ermm I don't have three hands and even if I was using a plane single handed I would NEVER adjust a plane iron with the screw tight on one of my infills. On a stanley bailey type yes but not one with a lever cap and scrrew nope not ever.

Edit:

How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers?

I've no idea how it would be done with a hammer, lateral adjustment and deeper yes but not withdrawal. I can do it with woodies but that involves hitting the body.

Another Edit

Raney Nelson , Daed Toolworks

On the bench planes I back out and start over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-3zk2nnNaA

On the wedged mitres 90% of the time he uses the sneck but shock horror he might use the strike button. None of mine are new and most are antique so I would never hit metal bodies. He also uses the DB method eek but doesn't cut his fingers MUCH.