Is this a joke ?.

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TRITON

Established Member
UKW Supporter
Joined
5 Oct 2014
Messages
4,392
Reaction score
3,468
Location
Sunny Glasgow
increase of 5% per year over 16 years - doesn't seem too bad to me, or am I missing something ?
 
I’d be tempted to buy it now. Raw material costs are going crazy. Steel for example has gone up well over 100% since the start of the pandemic, more like 120%. No idea where this is headed, but many manufacturers have held off passing on big price increases by absorbing the extra costs in the hope that this is just a blip. That’s not sustainable when you are losing money on the goods you manufacture, so there are some much bigger price increases coming soon for consumers IMO.
 
Waiting for things to get cheaper has never worked for me so now is always the best time to buy. I get regular emails from a lot of tool sellers and the bandsaw I got 15 years ago would be twice the price now. We are also at the end of a long spell of fairly low inflation so most things will likely go up a lot more in the next year or so. The time for something to double in price is going to shorten.
Regards
John
 
increase of 5% per year over 16 years - doesn't seem too bad to me, or am I missing something ?
Well heres another example.
At the same time a Lie Nielsen block plane was £150. Today its £173. So in those 16 years its gone up by £23.
So why do some things need to rise year on year and others stay about the same.

Steel hasnt risen that much, and for example there a 10mm diameter bar of HSS is under a tenner @300mm long. Machined out sure, a wooden handle. But 125% rise for a set of 6 :unsure:
 
The tools carry the 'Made in Sheffield' logo, so I would expect the steel is processed in Sheffield. If that was the case, it would account for the higher price, but you would hope to have a corresponding increase in quality of the tools.
I think it's great to see manufacturing return to the UK.
 
I think it's great to see manufacturing return to the UK.
One day it will because the way economies cycle, we priced ourselves out of the market and relied on cheaper imports from Asia, essentially also losing our skills base, well paid jobs and are now a land of service industries with our standard of living on the decline. The Asians are now wanting higher standards of living with all the trimmings and at some point will see us as a cheaper labour market than themselves and so manufacturing returns.
 
First up, RP has moved production back to the UK and the quality does seem to have gone up. I bought a 1 inch long handled scraper and it does seem to hold its edge rather better than earlier RP tools I have. Its subjective though. Its not 'fancy' but it feels right and well put together - sturdy handle and ferrule. UK made probably increases unit cost but shortens supply chains and means you don't need to order a year in advance or hold as much stock to match unpredictable demand.

Second - inflation and VAT. Inflation is compounded, the rpi index in 2006 was 202, now its 323 so your £99 gets to £158, add more VAT (its 20% now, was 17.5) you get to about £163. Assuming the £99 set was 6 piece not 5, and was bought full price rather than on promotion it still looks like a significant price hike, but certainly not in the 'joke' territory. RP often do time-limited discount promotions, so that would bring things much closer.

Third, and this is the big one, is that assumption that cost and retail price are linked. They are for some things but not for others. I buy heating oil (rural) and that is a commodity - suppliers can differentiate a bit on service and ease of ordering but 28 sec Kerosene is the same whether I buy it from Goff, Gulf, Watson .... whatever. A big part of the cost is their purchasing cost, a small part may depend on how efficiently they run their tanker fleet, so I buy on price. Frozen dead chickens are in the same category - Tesco, Asda, differ in what the bag says but they are a commodity. Producer costs rise - retail price rises.

Consumer goods are different because they are differentiated by quality and 'perceived quality'. A BMW will cost a bit more to make than a Skoda perhaps, better plastics and trim, but not a lot more. But people pay lots more for a BMW than an equivalent Skoda because they percieve it as "better". Price is driven by what the market will pay, not by what it costs to produce. (as long as A>B, otherwise you go broke). Does a Roberty Sorby gouge cost twice as much to make as a Crown? Doubt it. Does an iphone cost twice as much to make as a Xiomi? Your house, not exactly a "consumer good" but subject to the same quality perceptions (if you are fortunate to own one) is worth what someone will pay for it, not what it cost to build or cost you to buy.

It looks to me like RP has decided it might not survive as a bottom-feeder budget brand: they can always be undercut by someone on ebay or alibaba. So they are moving upmarket - not to the top but to the middle where there are decent margins to be found. You do that by increasing quality, increasing the perception of quality which has a lot to do with presentation and intangibles, and of course the price. Look at what others are doing, decide where you want to be and price accordingly. I try not to buy stuff that is "too cheap", and don't want to shell out on brands for brands sake. Look how Kia and Skoda have moved their brands from where they were 10 or 15 years ago - Kia were making and selling rebadged Mk3 Astras, now they have EVs that are sought after as best in their sector.

So yes, the price has gone up a fair but more than inflation but maybe with good reason. If they don't get the sales they expact they might well discount in a limited promotion: 25% off brings it pretty close to the £99 plus inflation. And we will all see it as 'better' - £225 with £50 off is seen as better quality than £175.

(Lie Nielson always were top of market - maybe they have good margins, realise that any more price hikes will damage sales, so have only made small adjustments).
 
First up, RP has moved production back to the UK and the quality does seem to have gone up.

There was a thread about Record Power joining the "Made in Britain" organisation a while back (see here). What exactly are they now manufacturing in the UK? Have they "reshored" their entire production operations? Or is it just specific products or components? My understanding is that it is the latter. Interested to hear if you know more about this.
 
I think we must remember that just because it is " made in Britain" does not automatically mean that it is a superior product like it may have been once upon a time. Most Asian countries can manufacture to high standards, especially China but they will be manufacturing to a cost for the middle man so they can have their cut. Really it is us as the buyers who are setting the standards, if an outlet can sell rubbish and make a good profit then we are to blame for buying it in the first place rather than leaving it on the shelf because then something would change. The old saying of you only get what you pay for is still mostly true, but not if you are a blind brand follower.
and don't want to shell out on brands for brands sake.
That is the right thought process, look past the badge and at the actual product although some brands do just stand out for delivering quality such as Tuff saw blades, FC tools, Benchdogs and lets not forget Peter at www who is not just a salesman and supplies quality brands. Then there are others who now live on their past prestige, VW and Mercedes cars being prime examples.
 
I think it's progressive with a view to moving most of it back. Saw it somewhere, don't recall exactly.

I'm sure they will make the most of it with made in UK in the advertising for each item. It seems likely that some components will come from elsewhere because there might not be capacity here anymore. Just thinking it through, with no knowledge, you could buy a rough cast lathe bed and finish it here, or buy it finished and then add a motor made in China or buy in the whole thing and just assemble the headstock and tailstock here: at what point does it become "made in Britain" I wonder? Its something that exercises the EU for free trade agreements, how much local content is needed. I think they do it by value so until the UK has a battery factory no British built EVs will be classed as British thus avoiding EU import duty. Maybe why Land Rovers get built in Serbia now. (don't get me started on all that Brexit stuff... 😭)

I agree with Spectric, doesn't matter where its made, its what the vendor (RP in this case) specifies. With the tool I've just bought I think they have changed the spec as well as moving production.
 
I think we must remember that just because it is " made in Britain" does not automatically mean that it is a superior product like it may have been once upon a time. Most Asian countries can manufacture to high standards, especially China but they will be manufacturing to a cost for the middle man so they can have their cut. Really it is us as the buyers who are setting the standards, if an outlet can sell rubbish and make a good profit then we are to blame for buying it in the first place rather than leaving it on the shelf because then something would change. The old saying of you only get what you pay for is still mostly true, but not if you are a blind brand follower.

That is the right thought process, look past the badge and at the actual product although some brands do just stand out for delivering quality such as Tuff saw blades, FC tools, Benchdogs and lets not forget Peter at www who is not just a salesman and supplies quality brands. Then there are others who now live on their past prestige, VW and Mercedes cars being prime examples.

Agree with all of this. I'd like to see more manufacturing return to the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) to create jobs and reduce the amount of dependency on global supply chains which aren't good for the environment and can be seriously disrupted as we've seen with the pandemic but could also be true in the case of political insecurity/warfare. But we'd need to be prepared to pay for high quality manufacturing done locally.
 
Just thinking it through, with no knowledge, you could buy a rough cast lathe bed and finish it here, or buy it finished and then add a motor made in China or buy in the whole thing and just assemble the headstock and tailstock here: at what point does it become "made in Britain" I wonder?

Basically the same questions I was asking in the earlier thread I linked to. My concern is that the "Made in Britain" badge can be used rather disingenously (as in the examples you cite). I'd like to see the actual reshoring of manufacturing. Not all components necessarily but stuff made substantively in the UK/Europe for the reasons I mentioned above (concerns over the environmental impacts of global supply chains and the dependency on these chains in unstable times).

What I don't want to see is the sale of goods marked "Made in Britain" or "Made in France" or whatever, where the bulk of the manufacturing has in fact occured elsewhere. In my mind this is just a cheap marketing gimmick designed to mislead the consumer.

The bigger question is whether it is economically viable under current/future circumstances to produce high (enough) quality products at prices which are affordable and attractive enough to consumers in the West to forgo the cheaper imports from the East.
 
Back
Top