Interesting oak

[condeesteso]

I probably use oaks more than any other species, and have a deep-rooted (sorry!) affinity with it. But I came across some holm oak (live oak in the States) the other day. It's evergreen, and now quite rare in the UK. This particular tree is Quercus Ilex, there are a lot of evergreen varieties, mainly native North America but a few elsewhere:

This is a board across a cleft so it's a bit tangled anyway, but I gather it is normally short-grain with quite fluid / wild grain running. Colour is typical oak, maybe a fraction darker. Density is considerable - far heavier than best English and I would guess a good 750kg per cu.m. Apparently it was used extensively in ship-building, particularly structural components - keel, knees etc. That was where our native stock went mainly. So blame the Admiralty, and hence the French really :wink:

The board I got is about 5ft x 18" x 60mm (imperio-metric).

Came from Ockham Park - I was where it fell, the exact spot. I have no other source at all where I can go and stand on the spot the tree came down, very 'Village Carpenter'. Wood only comes from storm-damage or ageing stock, there is no commercial felling at all.
Alex there has amazing stocks of oaks, spalted beech and ash, fine yew, hornbeam*, burrs, many highly figured boards. Prices are good, all stock air dried, no VAT (legit., to do with the farm and estate something) Just off the M25, A3 next to Wisley. He has a facebook page https://www.facebook.com/SawmillProducts, but easiest to get him on his mobile Alex Wigley 07981 905009.

* I really went to look at the hornbeam - bought 14 cu ft... what would I be wanting that for (in about 2 years time, being as it's quite green).

 

[carlb40]

That looks very nice. He has some great timber on his fb page, wished i lived closer.

 

[marcros]

What have you in mind for the hornbeam douglas- I have seen it used for handles and 14ft is a lot of handles!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Very nice, I might just need an excuse to pop round there myself.

 

[marcros]

It is well worth the trip. I drive down from Leeds to get some London plane- must have been 2012 now.

 

[Grahamshed]

An interesting piece of wood and another source of supply to add to my very short list.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

What is Alex's surname please?

 

[Harbo]

I'm sure it says Wigley?

I didn't realise Quercus Ilex was rare? There used to be a fantastic one in the High Street, Winchester near the Law Courts before it was deemed too large and cut down - replaced by an Elizabeth Fink statue!
My daughters neighbour has an enormous one in their garden.
Lovely trees but they do grow big so not suitable for the average garden?

Rod

 

[Saint Simon]

Looks and sounds very interesting. Is this a commercial wood yard you can just turn up at or do you need to phone and book in? How about quantities. Do they cater for people needing just a few boards?
Simon

 

[carlb40]

Looks and sounds very interesting. Is this a commercial wood yard you can just turn up at or do you need to phone and book in? How about quantities. Do they cater for people needing just a few boards?
Simon

This is from his fb page.

Welcome to the new likers of my page.
I have a small sawmill on the estate where I work, and mill timber from the woods I manage. Many of the boards are natural edge in a range of thicknesses. Feel free to come and browse through the racks. Alex

 

[hanser]

condeesteso

Thanks for that link. Might pop in when I next head south to my boat. I've been thinking of making a couple of 'greenish' oak garden benches for my son's and daughter's new (to them) homes.

 

[hammer n nails]

hi looked at the page" from the woods" will be going to have a look when the weather improves fantastic wood what are his prices like

 

[marcros]

It is best to ring first because he may be elsewhere on the estate. Happy enough to sell you the odd board I think but bear in mind that it probably isn't good business for them if you spend half a day of alex's time to choose a single board. If you have something in mind, it is worth letting him know- when I went for the London plane, he had got a couple of pieces out for me to look at, based on my sizes.

I forget what I paid, but it was as competitive as I can work out. I was happy with what I paid and couldn't find any elsewhere. You have to remember that you are buying part of a tree from the estate, not an anonymous plank from a rack. Alex can tell you everything about that tree, when it was felled etc.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Density is considerable - far heavier than best English and I would guess a good 750kg per cu.m.

If it weighs as you suggest, that's the equivalent of about 46.7 lb/ft³. European oak, the class into which English oak falls typically weighs 720 kg/m³, or ~45 lb/ft³ at roughly 10% MC. Given that, I think describing it as "far heavier" is a significant stretch. Apart from that you have an interesting find. Slainte.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Quercus ilex (Holm oak or evergreen oak) isn't rare, I see it growing everywhere as a tree surgeon. It's not native, I believe its a Mediterranean species originally. I've tried turning it a few times but it's murder for cracking or warping.

 

[condeesteso]

Sorry, been out. Yes it's Alex Wigley. I would definitely call first, his main role is managing the estate so wood is secondary to that, but he's almost always there.
He's happy to sell a board or part board, or just a lump of burr.
Re density my number was a guess, so a bad one. It is considerably heavier than decent English. The board I got is yard dry say around 12 % - another guess, I'll pay for that #-o

Sorry Mark, re the hornbeam. It very depends on how the seasoning goes. Either one big 'thing' or an expensive stack of firewood (more handles than I could ever use). Used to be used for mill gears I believe.

 

[dickm]

Sorry Mark, re the hornbeam. It very depends on how the seasoning goes. Either one big 'thing' or an expensive stack of firewood (more handles than I could ever use). Used to be used for mill gears I believe.

Also sometimes referred to as "ironwood", on account of its hardness. Not sure how brittle it is, so possibly not ideal for handles? But is excellent for making formers or stakes for use in jewellry work or other not-too-hard metals.

 

[Mar_mite]

I think I know this place, I popped in for a look while I was passing. Got attacked by a jack Russell. Great place though, and spoke to a nice bloke.

 

[condeesteso]

Ref 'rare' Harbo - that is mainly just my impression, but I did read somewhere that the UK used to have quite a bit. From my various garden etc visits (another interest) I certainly don't see many around in the SE. And from all my hunting for native hardwoods I'd say it's hard to find (but I would say the same of true brown oak, or lacewood maybe).
The main thing here is a really good supplier, nice bloke, excellent stocks, v good prices.
I'll own up - the hornbeam is for a bench, if I can pull it off. The challenges are many - starting with the seasoning but I'll have it on site to watch over it and nurse as necessary. Then working it. But if I can manage it, it would be an amazing bench.... I feel some advice coming my way.

p.s. Marmite - that Jack Russell? Did he have a big stick in his gob?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Re density my number was a guess, so a bad one. It is considerably heavier than decent English. The board I got is yard dry say around 12 % - another guess, I'll pay for that.

I'm sorry to be a pedant, but I still think it's a bit of a stretch to say Holm oak is "considerably heavier". At 10% MC it usually weighs in the region of 795 kg/m³, or about 49.5 lb/ft³. This makes it ~10% heavier than Quercus robur which typically weighs 45 lb/ft³. Based on this I'd describe Holm oak as 'a bit heavier' per cube, or perhaps I'd describe it more accurately as 'typically about 10% heavier' per cube. Slainte.