Inlays

[Random Orbital Bob]

No experience with inlays myself either but perhaps worth mentioning is another trick in the turning universe which is the use of dentists drills for piercing work. Very fine tools indeed, pen like in fact...well of course you'll all know since I'm sure at one time or another the dreaded high pitched motor has come near your mouth!

For detailed, close up control they're used a lot in the turning world. Doubt they'd be much good at flat bottomed cutting though, more piercing.

 

[Alexam]

Just looked at my original post and see I stated 20-30mm inlay depth. WHAT RUBBISH I TYPE SOMETMES. Should check wht I type more closely. Bepth of designs would be about 5mm and of a size max 120mm and idth max 50mm, but most would be aroung 50-60mm long and 30-40mm wide. Ocassionally I may wish to do a longer sweeping design, like a guitar fret, but only the odd one.

Had a thought today, does anyone, within a reasonable distance, have a dremel type tool with a router base, that could show me how well they work. I could then compare with Glynne's router inlay kit ( calling you soon on this Glynne) and that.

I have very little experience with routers, but tried a 1/4" one on inlay today and found it a bit awkward to see the work as it was routing.

 

[nicguthrie]

Best I could do, (unless you own a teleporter or a private jet) is maybe take a rookie video of it in use in my incredibly messy workshop for you?

Easily done, tho it'd be stop-start a lot cos I've only got a phone to record with, and It'd havve to get propped up somewhere to show my fiddling about...

Willing to give it a shot tho... Just thinking, even better, I have Wifi that reaches my workshop, (posh, eh?) I could perhaps skype/whatsapp/hangouts with you from there.

All up to you and depending on if you get a better offer.

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Nic, much appreciated, but I'm not a technically minded as yourself and Skype ???????????? Much as it would be very interesting and I have an iPad and PC so I assume either would work.
If I don't get another offer locally, I would appreciate the video, so will get back to you on this.

This is building a good case for an Inlay-Marquetry & Intarsia forum.

 

[nicguthrie]

Do You YouTube?

I found a couple of videos that might help - This guy shows it off breifly, but pretty well - http://youtu.be/6vRh6dLn7eM

Or there's this one, shows the Stewmac one being used from a user's view, from the 35 second mark. http://youtu.be/r7YYmj3WUy0 - he's turned the base backwards so that the camerra get's the user's normal view.

The router base linked earlier is a clone of this, so should work pretty identically. I realise it's not the same as getting to use one first hand, but it's better than jumping in blind, and easier to find than a teleporter!

All the best!

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Hi Nic, those are superb videos and that router base looks really good. I like the way that it is cut away to give a clearer view of the work. I also like the magnifing headset, which I must look around for, although I do have one of those large magnifying lights on a bracket, which is very good, so will try that first and I like the 1/32" bit for fine work.

Don't suppose there is a UK outlet for the Stewmac? Did you say you had one of those?

Any ideas on foo switches to control the router when both hands are in use?

 

[nicguthrie]

Hey again!

Marcros linked a site that does a clone of it earlier, at http://www.luthiertools.co.uk/products.html for £38. I've actually been waiting for you to buy one before I get one myself, as I don't want to leave them out of stock for you

This is the link for the official Stewart Macdonald page that is abbreviated stewmac if for some reason you really want the original - http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tool...outer_Base/Precision_Router_Base.html#details as for whether they have a UK outlet, I'm barely more experienced in these things myself, I just have a lot of free time and a background in web research They list their customer care number as 800-848-2273, just remember that's a US number so you'd need to fiddle with it a little to convert it for dialling from here (it'll be 00-1-800-848-2273) and remember when they say open 9am till 6pm that they're on eastern time, 5 hours behind GMT (our winter time in the UK)

In the video, he's just using an extension cord with an on off switch on the end, pressed with his toe, to turn it off and on without his hands. I admit I've done this myself in the past, adn it's quite easy to do... A lot cheaper than finding a "Proper" foot switch too! you can get them at Argos for less than a tenner.

All the best!

Nic.

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Nic, these seem almost identical but as luthiertools.co.uk are in Manchester, I would feeel more at home with a UK company and the prices are very similar. I may therefore order his last one and am sorry you will have to wait. I also think a small pump may be on the order books to blow away the dust.

Good point on the switch ....................... now where's that Argos book.

Many thanks for your help again.

 

[Alexam]

You can also use a granny's tooth ,Hand router to remove the bulk

Only on larger inlays. For what I have in mind, that would be far too large.

 

[Alexam]

WHAT A STAR ....................................... Now this is what a good forum is all about when it comes to helping others.

Marcros has just sent me a few various sheets of inlay wood to try out for free. I have notdone inlays before and although I may well made deeper inlays in the future, thiese sheets will give me something to practice on. Very much appreciated Marc.

After looking at several tools, I am almost at the point of selecting a Dremel 4000 and a router base of the Stewmac style, as the Dremel base has such poor reports. An almost identical base is made by Luthier Tools in Manchester at £38 and I will probably go for that.

I have my son's 1/2" JCB router and we aquired anothr 1/4" old router with a base thast we could use. However, I see my needs at present being small inlays on the badsaw boxes we make, so a Dremel would fit in nicely.

Before I buy, I need to compare Glynne's Trend Inlay Kit which he has kindly agreed to show me working.

What a great forum this is. Thank you guys. Great help.

 

[gasman]

I do lots of inlays / stringing etc - and the best results by far that I have got when doing machine cut inlays is using the small proxxon router. I have a dremel on its own base, and the small bosch router but the proxxon is best by a country mile. I prefer cutting inlays by hand but I find a router useful for removing the waste in the base
Hope that helps
Mark

 

[Alexam]

That's interesting Mark. I would love to see some of your work. Any chance you can post some pictures here to look at, or PM me if you prefer. Also, with the Proxxon, is there a good router base for that, as I quite liked the Stewmac type, or dont you tend to use router bases with these small tools?

 

[Alexam]

Anyone around the solihull area or within few miles away, that would be prepared to show me a few tricks on inlays they do?

 

[gasman]

My website is http://www.markstoneham.co.uk which has lots of my inlay work on it.
The proxxon router is quite superb and has its own base which is far more sturdy than the dremel. Although I prefer to cut inlays and stringing by hand, I tend to use a router when I am cutting stringing into big pieces like these library steps I just finished

For doing intarsia-type work, I tend to cut out the piece to be inlaid first - often about 2mm thick, then 'draw round it' using an 11 blade scalpel (pointed blade), then hog out most of the waste with the router - using a 2mm milling cutter. Then tidy up the edges with chisels / gouges / scalpel. I use a pair of cheap dental loupes which give 4x magnification and mean that, if I can get it looking half-reasonable under magnification - it will look fine to the naked eye (similar rules to when I make mistakes and have to correct them!). Need a very bright light too!
Hope that helps
BW and good luck
Mark

 

[Alexam]

Hi Mark, thank you for that invaluable information.

Having looked at your web site, you have some excellent work there and the sort of inlays and stringing that I would like to do on the bandsaw boxes, with various themes in mind.

Not having done any inlay work so far, I have been contemplating the Dremel 4000 and a StuMac type router base, as that base looks far better than the Dremel one and seems to have a greater area to view when working. The Proxxon professional has been suggested by others but I am unsure which would be best. From what I have read, the Dremel (175w motor) seems good and has a higher (33000)rpm than the Proxxon (20,000) with it's 100w motor ......... what is it I am not underestanding about these two and the better one to buy for this hobby?

I already have one of those large, square, 5x mag LED lights on a bench grip arm, so not sure if I will need a head loupe dental magnifyer. I have 1/2" and 1/4" routers, although I have hardly used them, but will be seeing Glynne in Sutton Coldfield soon, who had a Trend inlay kit at Christmas and offered to show it to me, which will be interesting.

I have been looking at loads of videos on inlay, stringing, Luthier work etc and if possible would love to pop down to Oxford and take a look at what you do and how you do it if you have time to spare. It looks like you keep rather busy with your work already. I'm retired, so have time to play more.

Cheers for now
Malcolm

 

[gasman]

I have several dremels and the router base and I just never got on with it - and also it is limited in terms of the 'bits' it will take because of the very small collet. I prefer to have a 1/4 inch small router into which I can put smaller bits. Not sure if that makes sense? What is definitely excellent about the proxxon is the ability to see what is going on - it has a wide base giving lots of view. Each to their own I just like the control it gives. If you are inlaying into a piece of expensive wood which is has already taken you ages to cut / joint / carve etc, then you cannot afford 'slips'
You'd be welcome to pop down - PM me and we can arrange?
BW
Mark

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Mark. I'll contact you next week and see if we can arange a date. I appreciate that.

 

[Oryxdesign]

Pictures speak louder than words.... Daven laser cut my templates for me, the router guide bush is home made. View the photos from the last one in each post, sorry I entered them in the wrong order.

 

[Oryxdesign]

The router cutter is a 1mm combined cutter from small wonders

 

[Alexam]

Thanks Simon, that's nice work. I see you use the Dremel and the base part ..... is that the part that is the grouter? I have seen others use that as well. What's your opinion of the Dremel?

The veneer leaves seem to be the iron on type. Do you recess for them with the dremel and bit and then iron them on top, as against sticking them down?

I do like the idea of having laser cut templates in perspex, that must really help with the routing with the 1mm bit.

With this cold weather, I am thinking of making a board and bringing the veneering into the house to prepare the basics and just go out to the garage when I am using the router.

I appreciate your help and this sort of feedback would be ideal for an inlay forum, if one is set up.