India’s successful Moon Landing

[Jacob]

You now defiantly get the Dietrich Bonhoeffern ‘stupid’ award.

Shouting again!

Just a quick google will highlight that the NHS targets were setup by Labour under Tony Blair.

https://economicsociology.org/2018/03/19/thatcherisms-greatest-achievement/

.. Absolutely nothing to do with the Tories who in fact are trying to water down the targets to cover up their appalling management of the NHS.

There's an admission! Well done, did it hurt?

 

[Jacob]

Wrong again, it’s not about profit, but about cost effective delivery.

Popular delusion as privatisation creams off the easy stuff. The state is still paying but the shareholders get some of the profits. it's a form of gambling - they are betting on whether or not the state will stump up for your cancer treatment etc.

If it costs less to provide the service / product we don’t need to spend as much of the tax revenue on it, we don’t need to tax the population as much, we effectively put money back in people pockets.

Private health care is not cost effective anywhere in the world. Simple reason for this - many/most ill people can't afford to pay for it so the state has to stump up. "Universal" private health care is a ludicrous contradiction in terms.

 

[Jameshow]

India’s moon rover weighs more or less the same as my 8inch bench grinder! (On topic)
Stuart

What did they find on the moon?
Jacob and Deema fighting it out over political theory!

 

[Jacob]

What did they find on the moon?
Jacob and Deema fighting it out over political theory!

Our paths might not cross Deema would be on the dark side!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What did they find on the moon?
Jacob and Deema fighting it out over political theory!

Deema with his 8" CBN wheels and Jacob with his highly efficient hollow coarse oilstone.
.

 

[Adam W.]

India’s moon rover weighs more or less the same as my 8inch bench grinder! (On topic)
Stuart

Resistance is useless!

 

[Jake]

I came across this quote from Steve Albini, an ex punk musician who's now a successful sound engineer, not that that's relevant, and it struck a chord.

“However you define ‘woke,’ anti-woke means being a c*nt who wants to indulge bigots”

He goes on to say that, being white and straight, he has the easiest job in the world, so why would he not want to leave some space for others.

Great guy, great engineer. Also the second loudest gig I ever attended was one of his (loudest was Swans).

 

[Jake]

I wonder how many realise that the term Woke is short for the wakening? The very term used by the Chinese Communist party ans it’s slogan before it succeeded in the revolution. Equally the UK SDP, or Social Democratic Party decided to use the name which is exactly the same as the party that brought Hitler to power.

It is impossible for those who create and promote these names to be ignorant and not sufficiently well read to understand the connotations of the terms. To suggest otherwise would be like promoting Hitler as a good forename with a defence they dudn5 know he was a megalomaniac who caused WW2!

You do know that there is such a thing as coincidence?

The history of this usage is from within the black 1960s civil liberties movement (ie anti-apartheid in the US), where woke was used for people (any ethnicity) who understood and supported that thoroughly and inarguably correct political movement. The term was then appropriated by the far right in the US more recently, as a label for (i) social leftist radicals and (ii) anyone else half decent and not a bigot.

 

[Jacob]

You do know that there is such a thing as coincidence?

The history of this usage is from within the black 1960s civil liberties movement (ie anti-apartheid in the US), where woke was used for people (any ethnicity) who understood and supported that thoroughly and inarguably correct political movement. The term was then appropriated by the far right in the US more recently, as a label for (i) social leftist radicals and (ii) anyone else half decent and not a bigot.

And now it has been picked up by Suella Braverman, along with tofu eating for some reason. Can't stand the stuff myself but happy to be thought of as woke by somebody as unpleasant as Cruella! Suella Braverman blames ‘Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati’ for disruptive protests – video

Wakey wakey!

 

[deema]

@Jake you could well be right, it could be a coincidence.
Clearly, my premise of the association is an implication and extrapolation of events in the USA. In the 1940 and 50’s the period of McCarthyism swept the USA, where there was a Red under every bed and they went to the extreme of banning all books written by communists. Absolutely anything commy was sniffed out and was well known, it was a time of persecution of anything remotely associated with communism. In that light, a time those who started the movement / term grew up in, the implications of the word awakening and its meaning would be well known.

 

[deema]

The blue moon last night was very impressive.

 

[Lefley]

Our paths might not cross Deema would be on the dark side!

At least Demma will be on the dark side with a big flashlight but Jacob will still be stumbling around on the light side with his eyes closed!

 

[Jake]

@Jake you could well be right, it could be a coincidence.
Clearly, my premise of the association is an implication and extrapolation of events in the USA. In the 1940 and 50’s the period of McCarthyism swept the USA, where there was a Red under every bed and they went to the extreme of banning all books written by communists. Absolutely anything commy was sniffed out and was well known, it was a time of persecution of anything remotely associated with communism. In that light, a time those who started the movement / term grew up in, the implications of the word awakening and its meaning would be well known.

Are you trying to say that the internal anti-apartheid civil rights movement in the US was Chinese communism rather than than just driven by basic human values? Strange fruit and all that.

 

[Jacob]

Are you trying to say that the internal anti-apartheid civil rights movement in the US was Chinese communism rather than than just driven by basic human values? Strange fruit and all that.

Yes and these people were deviously spreading the commy message too:
https://www.jubilate.co.uk/songs/awake_my_soul_and_with_the_sun_jubilate_versionWhat would be the "sacrifice" they refer to? One shudders to think!
It's a good job we have sharp eyed thinkers like deema, on alert for this sort of pervasive propaganda.
He also spotted that the Nazis were also covert socialists, which should be a warning to all those tempted by fascism that they could end up, without realising it, as awful socialists!

 

[Fergie 307]

Are you trying to say that the internal anti-apartheid civil rights movement in the US was Chinese communism rather than than just driven by basic human values? Strange fruit and all that.

Wow, where did that come from. He suggested nothing of the kind. Bizarre comment.

 

[Superduner]

I will use your own argument, the wealthy don’t sit on their money under the mattress, they invest it usually in industry, so they are helping to create new jobs and opportunities, more effectively than any government. Equally, back in the old days people made their fortunes locally, the6 owned the factory in the village / town / city. These days people make money on the world stage, if you invest in say Google shares, you investing in a company with global reach. Your not ‘hording‘ GBP, but dollars, and they are giving you dollars having made their money in every currency and economy around the world. Equally, who do you think buys up government bonds to enable governments to borrow?
The problem the UK had is that we dont have enough millionaires or billionaires, we need as many as possible! The more the better. Higher taxation on the super wealthy who can literally live anywhere in the world will just drive them to say Monoco, where they d8nt oay any taxes!

I'm reliably informed that Monaco is a better place to live if you have a few bob.

 

[Jacob]

Wow, where did that come from. He suggested nothing of the kind. Bizarre comment.

You have to read back a bit, if you can be bothered!

 

[Scruples]

You mean ask for better wages, job security and better working conditions?

They provide a worse service and screw us instead with big profits, payout dividends and bonuses.
https://theconversation.com/the-uks-water-industry-is-broken-heres-how-to-fix-it-190700
You mean she looked after the better off?

She looked after thosee who were prepared to work, not subsidised those who didn't. She saw the writing on the wall for nationalised industries and took steps to ensure a better future for the country as a whole. Now we pay what the services cost.

 

[Jacob]

She looked after thosee who were prepared to work,

No she didn't. She fought against the unions, tried to keep wages down and ran down public services on which we all depend.

not subsidised those who didn't. She saw the writing on the wall for nationalised industries and took steps to ensure a better future for the country as a whole. Now we pay what the services cost.

Now we pay huge bonuses to management, huge profits to shareholders, put up with run down services..
Weirdly a substantial proportion of our public services are now run by the nationalised industries of other nations! Madness.

 

[deema]

ran down public services on which we all depend

Name that service or services she ran down, which was worse off, didn’t perform as well as it did under labour.