Inca bandsaw

[Krysstel]

Also you can take that into account with the miter guide.

How ? :?

A third point is that with crowned tyres the teeth are probably not touching the tyre but if you track the INCA they will and will (over time) damage its surface.

I see that and my one worry with Steve's method.


Mark

 

[Steve Maskery]

That is why Bandsaw fences can be adjusted to compensate. Also you can take that into account with the miter guide.

How? Please explain further, I'm a bear etc, etc.

A third point is that with crowned tyres the teeth are probably not touching the tyre but if you track the INCA they will and will (over time) damage its surface.

OK, now this is, I understand, the reason that manufacturers suggest we do it. And it is true.
But it doesn't happen overnight, and if the blade is very narrow, it has to be on the rubber. As I say, either it's OK or it isn't.
Yes, I agree that the tyres will get worn over time, but that is part of the wear of the machine. I'd rather have to renew my tyres every decade and have my saw cutting nicely all the time, than have them last my lifetime but be messing about with drift.

 

[Krysstel]

How? Please explain further, I'm a bear etc, etc.

Yes, how is that possible ?

But it doesn't happen overnight, and if the blade is very narrow, it has to be on the rubber. As I say, either it's OK or it isn't.
Yes, I agree that the tyres will get worn over time, but that is part of the wear of the machine. I'd rather have to renew my tyres every decade and have my saw cutting nicely all the time, than have them last my lifetime but be messing about with drift.

I definately agree with Steve's point of view here.
Just looked at the first pictures of my saw with the as-bought blade in and the previous (clueless) owner had the blade tracked in the middle of the tyre. I cannot believe he'd done this intentionally and am 99% sure the blade has been tracked that way since 1988. But the tyres are still pristine.

Mark

 

[Krysstel]

Been very busy with other things this week so havn't managed to sort out the tracking issue yet. However I spent 15 minutes on it yesterday and have come up against a new snag.
When I took the casing off I found the circlip from the top wheel spindle and a couple of shims laying at the bottom of the chassis :shock: It seems to me that the circlip is too loose on the spindle and there should maybe be another shim added behind it. This has probably been caused by wear and the shims have become thinner over time. The circlip is also a bit loose and needs to be replaced. Anyway, whatever the cause the circlip had fallen off and the only thing holding the wheel on was the blade tension - which I'd forgotten to slacken :roll:
Can anyone suggest a solution ? I've heard of cutting such shims from drinks cans for instance, but don't know if it really works.
I'm also a bit concerned about the top wheel only being secured by a circlip whilst the bottom wheel has a securing bolt on the end of the spindle. Maybe it's possible to drill and tap the top spindle and add a bolt and washer in addition to the circlip.

Have checked the coplanarity again and confirmed an approximate 5mm difference between the top and bottom wheels. Am going to try moving the bottom wheel out to compensate.



Mark

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Been very busy with other things this week so havn't managed to sort out the tracking issue yet. However I spent 15 minutes on it yesterday and have come up against a new snag.
When I took the casing off I found the circlip from the top wheel spindle and a couple of shims laying at the bottom of the chassis :shock: It seems to me that the circlip is too loose on the spindle and there should maybe be another shim added behind it. This has probably been caused by wear and the shims have become thinner over time. The circlip is also a bit loose and needs to be replaced. Anyway, whatever the cause the circlip had fallen off and the only thing holding the wheel on was the blade tension - which I'd forgotten to slacken :roll:
Can anyone suggest a solution ? I've heard of cutting such shims from drinks cans for instance, but don't know if it really works.
I'm also a bit concerned about the top wheel only being secured by a circlip whilst the bottom wheel has a securing bolt on the end of the spindle. Maybe it's possible to drill and tap the top spindle and add a bolt and washer in addition to the circlip.

Have checked the coplanarity again and confirmed an approximate 5mm difference between the top and bottom wheels. Am going to try moving the bottom wheel out to compensate.



Mark

If you take a look at my saw the top is secured by a circlip and the bottom has no bolt, never has had.

A new circlip and shims should be enough.

 

[jimi43]

I should think that with a fixed configuration that shims are the way to adjust the wheels on the spindles so that they become coplanar? Just a thought.

Questions on the INCA Yahoo forum are most likely to get you confirmation though as there are many members all with your saw.

Jim

 

[Krysstel]

I should think that with a fixed configuration that shims are the way to adjust the wheels on the spindles so that they become coplanar? Just a thought.

Jim.
Good idea but won't work for this problem. The top wheel is all the way in on the spindle and still 5mm further out than the bottom wheel. Had the problem been reversed then, yes, I could shim behind the top wheel to move it out and use correspondingly fewer shims behind the circlip.
The bottom wheel doesn't have shims at all but is secured by a grub screw, and on my machine by a retaining bolt - unlike Jerome's which only has a grub screw.

Having a bit of trouble sourcing suitable shim washers locally here. What do you think of the beer-can idea ? Too inaccurate maybe ?

Mark

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I should think that with a fixed configuration that shims are the way to adjust the wheels on the spindles so that they become coplanar? Just a thought.

Jim.
Good idea but won't work for this problem. The top wheel is all the way in on the spindle and still 5mm further out than the bottom wheel. Had the problem been reversed then, yes, I could shim behind the top wheel to move it out and use correspondingly fewer shims behind the circlip.
The bottom wheel doesn't have shims at all but is secured by a grub screw, and on my machine by a retaining bolt - unlike Jerome's which only has a grub screw.

Having a bit of trouble sourcing suitable shim washers locally here. What do you think of the beer-can idea ? Too inaccurate maybe ?

Mark

Beer / coke cans are very uniform in thickness but may be too soft.

 

[Krysstel]

Beer / coke cans are very uniform in thickness but may be too soft.

I can get hold of some proper shim washers by post but not off the shelf anywhere so in the meantime I'll give the beer can idea a go and put some proper shims in later. I want the machine up and running this weekend.

Mark

 

[jimi43]

Most beer/soda cans are aluminium so I would avoid that.

Try smoked fish tins...you might have a few up your way! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Krysstel]

Most beer/soda cans are aluminium so I would avoid that.

Try smoked fish tins...you might have a few up your way! :mrgreen:

Jim

Good one ! :deer
Will do :wink:

Mark

 

[John Brown]

I just ran mine with the side panel off(never done that before - too scary) and the 1/4 inch blade tracks perfectly with the teeth hanging over the edge of the tyre, both top and bottom.
I know for a fact that the wheels are not co-planar.
I realize this may not make sense, but I can't dismiss the evidence of my own eyes!
Anyway, there are two things I don't understand:
1)If the wheels are supposed to be co-planar, then what does the tracking do?
2)If the tracking adjustment tilts the top wheel, how can the wheels remain co-planar?

 

[Krysstel]

1)If the wheels are supposed to be co-planar, then what does the tracking do?
2)If the tracking adjustment tilts the top wheel, how can the wheels remain co-planar?

Two very good questions that I don't understand either.
Hopefully someone will enlighten us :?

Mark

 

[Krysstel]

Sorted :lol:

I fixed the loose top wheel by adding a normal washer the same diameter as the shim-washers and shuffled the shims around the normal washer until the circlip was a tight fit.
The bottom wheel I moved out on the spindle equivalent to the thickness of 3 small washers that I used as packing behind the securing bolt. This moved the wheel out sufficient to get it nigh on coplanar with the top wheel.
Retracked the blade and now it runs parallel and the same place on both wheels

An so to Jim's lignum guide blocks.
One of the short ones was a tad tight in the holder so I carefully took off a little with some wet&dry on my planer table. The other blocks went straight in.

One of the long top blocks was not quite 45 degrees but I'm sure it'll wear itself in against the blade. You can just see where I mean in this picture.

All the other blocks fitted perfectly although in hindsight I could have given Jim slightly oversize dimensions and then sanded each block down individually to a snug fit in each block holder. Something to bear in mind if anyone else decided to use lignum blocks in their saw.

With everything sorted it was time to switch on. Resawing had been requested so I resawed the piece of oak from last time. No problems whatsoever.
And the lignum blocks worked perfectly. Whereas the steel ones sounded like locomotive wheels on iron tracks the lignum blocks just make a light hissing noise. Excellent stuff =D> Well done Jim :wink:

That's it. Finished.
Thanks to everyone for all their help and advise.
Now on to the next restoration project https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/morten-moretens-pt-t57207.html

Mark

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I just ran mine with the side panel off(never done that before - too scary) and the 1/4 inch blade tracks perfectly with the teeth hanging over the edge of the tyre, both top and bottom.
I know for a fact that the wheels are not co-planar.
I realize this may not make sense, but I can't dismiss the evidence of my own eyes!
Anyway, there are two things I don't understand:
1)If the wheels are supposed to be co-planar, then what does the tracking do?
2)If the tracking adjustment tilts the top wheel, how can the wheels remain co-planar?

If the blade is tracking in the same place on both wheels then QED the wheels have to be coplanar ( or virtually so)

As you can see with Mark"'s saw, and as he has said, the wheels are quite a bit out. So his blade can't track in the same place.

AFAICWO You start with the wheels coplanar. Then the tracking adjust is like the steering on a bicycle. But if you don't start from coplanar then it will not track properly.

PS edit for clarity. When the tracking is neutral with no blade, and at rest the wheels should be coplanar. From that point tensioning and tracking the blade and running the saw. The wheels may not be perfectly coplanar when the saw is working.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Congratulations Mark

If you can resaw that then there is nothing wrong with the saw and everything right

FWIW Axminster has th bearings and at a good price too

 

[sometimewoodworker]

That is why Bandsaw fences can be adjusted to compensate. Also you can take that into account with the miter guide.

How? Please explain further, I'm a bear etc, etc.

Please understand that I have no wish to be in an educational, female grandparent, pre-baby chicken, inhalation of air, situation.

Aligning fence to the cut of the blade, assuming the tracking etc has been done:
Align the rip fence to the mitre slot
Take a parallel thinish board 15 mm x 2" or 3" wide by a meter (sizes are not exact though it should be parallel)
Scribe a line parallel to and about 15 mm in from one side.
Freehand (no fence) cut about halfway down the board along your line.
Do not move the board, turn the saw off, clamp the board down.
Draw a pencil line on the table along the edge of th board. You have now accounted for the blade not cu tting perfectly due north. Sometimes called blade drift

Having done this you need to set your rip fence to the line on the table top. This is often done with a sub fence. For a great video see correct blade drift

Having done that, and yes you should do it when you change blades, to set your mitre gage take the angle from the adjusted fence.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Jerome
You have described how to adjust the RIP FENCE for drift. But you have not described how, by altering the mitre fence off square, that compensates for drift. It doesn't, because, whatever angle it is set to, it is still MOVING in a True North direction and that is the critical point. It's why mitre fences are pretty useless unless you tune out drift rather than compensate for it.

S

 

[jimi43]

Hi Mark

Well done on getting the saw sorted....nice to see the LV blocks in-situ and like I said in the PM...the main thing for me is the noise reduction.

One thing to watch very carefully is that the thrust bearings are always such that when you put pressure on the blade the teeth do not move back into the blocks. As you can probably see from the old metal ones...it ruins the blocks and the set of the teeth so pay extra attention before each work session that they are set ok.

I really must get around to making myself a pair for my bandsaw!

Jim

 

[sometimewoodworker]

Jerome
You have described how to adjust the RIP FENCE for drift. But you have not described how, by altering the mitre fence off square, that compensates for drift. It doesn't, because, whatever angle it is set to, it is still MOVING in a True North direction and that is the critical point. It's why mitre fences are pretty useless unless you tune out drift rather than compensate for it.

S

I have made little use of my mitre fences as they are not very good, I've used other ways to get perfect angled cuts, so I don't have an answer to your question.

I would be interested to know how to tune out drift other than by using a saw set. This takes a long time for less than excelent results and of course won't work if you have a carbide-tipped bandsaw blade.