If you're thinking of emigrating to Europe and you're not so young think again perhaps

[Jake]

Farage like him or not gives the disenfranchised, disenchanted and marginalised a voice that was clearly lacking before he and his party came along.

I suppose that's one way to describe that minority.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Is this actually true, or another one of those massive Brexshiitty lies, like the "straight banana" lies so often thrown around? Citation would be nice.

Google it. Had they even just given a tiny bit to Cameron the referendum probably wouldn't have come about.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I suppose that's one way to describe that minority.

View attachment 194128

• 2nd place for feminism no surprise as half the poll were women - or identified as such.
• democracy for some unaccountable reason fails to appear as an ideology
• no religious ideologies
• it is somewhat surprising the Greens managed just 4 seats and less than 7% of the vote

May be meaningful - but far from convinced to put it mildly. Less diplomatically - if it looks like rubbish, smells like rubbish, garbage!!

 

[Jake]

• 2nd place for feminism no surprise as half the poll were women - or identified as such.

How awful.

• democracy for some unaccountable reason fails to appear as an ideology

Presumably because it isn't one.

• no religious ideologies

OK, not its subject I guess. Islamo-fascists go in the fascist box with the Christian white supremacists.

• it is somewhat surprising the Greens managed just 4 seats and less than 7% of the vote

General elections are multi-valent by their nature

May be meaningful - but far from convinced to put it mildly. Less diplomatically - if it looks like rubbish, smells like rubbish, garbage!!

I recognise that remark from the above.

 

[ey_tony]

I suppose that's one way to describe that minority.

View attachment 194128

OK...who on this forum thinks Starmer et al are doing a sterling job? OK let's make it easier, who thinks they are doing an OK job?

Who thinks Starmer et al's budget will stimulate growth and create jobs?

What percentage of the population thinks Starmer is a trustworthy PM?

If there was an election tomorrow, do you think Labour would win with the same level of victory or even win?

While you're at it name ONE successful truly socialist country?

 

[woodieallen]

OK...who on this forum thinks Starmer et al are doing a sterling job? OK let's make it easier, who thinks they are doing an OK job?

Only the deluded

Who thinks Starmer et al's budget will stimulate growth and create jobs?

See above

What percentage of the population thinks Starmer is a trustworthy PM?

A grudging 1%

If there was an election tomorrow, do you think Labour would win with the same level of victory or even win?

Only the deluded

While you're at it name ONE successful truly socialist country?

Ooh, I know the answer to this one. There aren’t any.

 

[maitland.selwyn]

The French health care model is an interesting one.
The most important point that I think ought to be highlighted is that French healthcare insurance providers are not permitted to make profit.

So how does that work?
Swiss Life, one of many listed providers of ‘top up’ health insurance in France, made 1.5 billion CHF profit last year. Is the part of their business that provides health insurance in France ring fenced to be non-profitable? Just because everyone refers to them as ‘mutuelles’ does not prove they are run like a mutual society. Many such providers are insurance companies.
I am not saying your statement is untrue, just curious to have some further info.

 

[Blackswanwood]

So how does that work?
Swiss Life, one of many listed providers of ‘top up’ health insurance in France, made 1.5 billion CHF profit last year. Is the part of their business that provides health insurance in France ring fenced to be non-profitable? Just because everyone refers to them as ‘mutuelles’ does not prove they are run like a mutual society. Many such providers are insurance companies.
I am not saying your statement is untrue, just curious to have some further info.

As I understand it from reading up on it at the weekend there are mutuelles which are effectively social insurance funds (not for profit) who provide “top up cover” for treatments and items provided by the state health provider but not paid for by them. It’s not complusory to have this cover.

Alongside this private health insurance (as we know it in the UK) also operates which includes and goes beyond the cover provided by the mutuelles.

 

[Spectric]

This thread is about emigrating to europe and not Uk politics so lets keep it on track and on topic which means no politics or gripes about the Uk government or it will be closed.

 

[selectortone]

This thread is about emigrating to europe and not Uk politics so lets keep it on track and on topic which means no politics or gripes about the Uk government or it will be closed.

Awwwww...

 

[Jacob]

.......

It is also no surprise that businesses and the wealthy put money before "morality" - they will reduce their costs where they can and tax is just another cost.

Had to revisit this appallingly cynical view of the world.
Basically it's not true, the majority of people regard "morality" as utterly normal; that what they do should have some value to society, the world, is useful, worthwhile, valuable, of service, interesting, entertaining, necessary...etc.
But, unfortunately, those who share Terry's crude and antisocial views are likely to make higher profits on goods and services, whatever the quality or need, whilst completely ignoring needs which are not profitable.
This is free-market capitalism and currently destroying the world as we know it.
Ordinary people who put wealth before "morality" tend to end up in prison!
Interesting that you put "morality" in inverted commas as though you don't quite know what it means!

 

[Spectric]

This is free-market capitalism and currently destroying the world as we know it.

No one can argue with that, driven by materialism and we end up over consuming the worlds resources.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Had to revisit this appallingly cynical view of the world.
Basically it's not true, the majority of people regard "morality" as utterly normal; that what they do should have some value to society, the world, is useful, worthwhile, valuable, of service, interesting...etc.
But, unfortunately, those who share Terry's crude and antisocial views are likely to make higher profits on goods and services, whatever the quality or need, whilst completely ignoring needs which are not profitable.
This is free-market capitalism and currently destroying the world as we know it.
Ordinary people who put wealth before "morality" tend to end up in prison!
Interesting that you put "morality" in inverted commas as though you don't quite know what it means!

"Morality" is in quotation marks for a reason. It was the best I could think of at the time to capture the choice of money over an obligation to support a local/national community.

I agree most people regard morality as utterly normal - but suspect this relates more to behaviours such as lying, theft, respect for others etc.

The same people knowingly or unknowingly buy goods from sources which are remote, possibly non-compliant with best standards (environmental, employment rights etc) purely on the basis of price and quality.

I suspect it is because there is no personal visibility of the consequences of their actions. We buy food, consumer goods, clothes etc etc from the world rather than support local farmers, manufacturers, craftsmen etc. It is a behaviour driven by pragmatism not "morality".

You are at liberty to abhor free market capitalism. It has some weaknesses - but I have yet to identify anywhere which has made a success of a "pure" alternative. The most successful societies adopt a compromise in which capitalism works harmoniously with essential social structures.

 

[Jacob]

"Morality" is in quotation marks for a reason. It was the best I could think of at the time to capture the choice of money over an obligation to support a local/national community.

Still missing the point. For most people most of the time it is in no sense an "obligation" - it is just normal.

I agree most people regard morality as utterly normal - but suspect this relates more to behaviours such as lying, theft, respect for others etc.

No it extends to a person's whole role in society. Even when what they are doing is total crap they still endeavour to persuade themselves and everybody else that it is necessary

The same people knowingly or unknowingly buy goods from sources which are remote, possibly non-compliant with best standards (environmental, employment rights etc) purely on the basis of price and quality.

This is one of the consequences of free market capitalism - lower standards of whatever it is means lower price and this reduces pressure on wages and keeps them lower, until the lowest paid simply can't afford a good quality of life.

I suspect it is because there is no personal visibility of the consequences of their actions. We buy food, consumer goods, clothes etc etc from the world rather than support local farmers, manufacturers, craftsmen etc. It is a behaviour driven by pragmatism not "morality".

Driven by wealth and income.

You are at liberty to abhor free market capitalism. It has some weaknesses - but I have yet to identify anywhere which has made a success of a "pure" alternative.

That's because there is no alternative which you could call "pure". It's a figment of your imagination.

The most successful societies adopt a compromise in which capitalism works harmoniously with essential social structures.

False dichotomy. You are setting your theoretical ideal of "free-market" capitalism against the needs of society. Take out "free-market" and "capitalism" just becomes a way of getting things done within society.
Capitalists don't need to be "free" anymore than thieves should be.

 

[Jacob]

Still missing the point. For most people most of the time it is in no sense an "obligation" - it is just normal.

No it extends to a person's whole role in society. Even when what they are doing is total crap they still endeavour to persuade themselves and everybody else that it is necessary

This is one of the consequences of free market capitalism - lower standards of whatever it is means lower price and this reduces pressure on wages and keeps them lower, until the lowest paid simply can't afford a good quality of life.

Driven by wealth and income.

That's because there is no alternative which you could call "pure". It's a figment of your imagination.

False dichotomy. You are setting your theoretical ideal of "free-market" capitalism against the needs of society. Take out "free-market" and "capitalism" just becomes a way of getting things done within society.
Capitalists don't need to be "free" anymore than thieves should be.

Or to put it another way; one exemplar of Terry's free-market amoral capitalism is the drugs trade, another would be slavery.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Or to put it another way; one exemplar of Terry's free-market amoral capitalism is the drugs trade, another would be slavery.

Taken to an equally logical extreme, socialism is the denial of all personal freedom in pursuit of the greater societal good. This is also best described as slavery!

Both are grossly unpleasant, and capable of implementation only by imposition:

• in the case of capitalism an unregulated free market allows individuals to pursue personal goals with no regard for the wider community
• in the case of socialism by authoritarian rule suppressing all individual freedom and initiative, with no regard for a fundamental right of personal opinion, expression or ambition

Your comments display a complete lack of balance, are unnecessarily and unpleasantly insulting, and takes out of context what has actually been written.

I will not waste my time responding to similar distortions.