If you're buying a new washing machine, beware .............

[morfa]

I have a Miele which is nearing 8 years or so old. We're lucky to have a local repair company who are pretty decent, they'll come out and take a look for free. We did knacker the pump as neither myself or my wife are that dilligent with checking pockets, so it was full of screws and coins. I'm probably better than she is actually. But it wasn't too expensive to fix.

That was after a useless Hotpoint which died on the last month of the warranty. We got a new one which died in short order. Hence spending a lot of money on a entry level of Miele.

 

[bugbear]

That was after a useless Hotpoint which died on the last month of the warranty. We got a new one which died in short order. Hence spending a lot of money on a entry level of Miele.

When SO's 20 year old hotpoint died, we looked around for a replacement. Miele were strongly recommended as the best, but far higher priced than most other products.

My SO is very organised, and still had the receipt for her Hotpoint. After finding an online inflation calculator, it turned out the Hotpoint machine had cost £670 in 2015 money. Perhaps there was a reason it lasted 20 years.

So the Miele suddenly looked more reasonable, especially when I saw the expected lifespan of other current brands.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It'll be interesting to see how long this new Hotpoint will last - it's the third new machine in four years.

 

[DiscoStu]

We bought a Miele a couple of years ago. It should have been £1500 but was ex display and it came from John Lewis where my wife is a partner so we ended up paying around £700. It came with a 5 year warranty which we increased to 10 years for about £100. It also has big cartridges which means you don’t add detergent the machine uses the cartridges and they last for a few months. It came with a years supply of detergent which we are roughly half way through after two years (machine is on a least once a day, it did 6 loads on Saturday). So if you calculate the saving in detergent as £10 a month then it’s saved us £480 so cost us £320 for a washing machine for 10 years. Not only that, it’s a very good at cleaning, has a big load capacity and is super quiet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AndyT]

Stu, does your Miele have a welded drum? It would be reassuring to know if at least some high end machines are fully repairable.

 

[Rorschach]

How many times a day are you changing your clothes? two washes a day, 6 on a saturday! lol

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My SO is very organised, and still had the receipt for her Hotpoint. After finding an online inflation calculator, it turned out the Hotpoint machine had cost £670 in 2015 money. Perhaps there was a reason it lasted 20 years.
So the Miele suddenly looked more reasonable, especially when I saw the expected lifespan of other current brands.
BugBear

I've just had an email from Axminster offering a Bosch 115mm angle grinder for less than £30 - I bought mine in a sale in 1985 ....................... for £70. :shock: On an inflation calculator that's about £200 - and that's in a sale. I doubt very much they are made to the same standards, and I doubt even more that those sold to today will still be in use in 2049.

 

[Rhyolith]

For a modern manufactures success comes through sales, other concerns come very much second. Manufacturers who don’t prioritise in this manner constantly risk losing profits and going out if business, like it or not thats the reality our current culture them into.

This thread reminded me of a company a collegue mentioned years ago, he was also sick of unreliable washing machines. I remember him saying they were foundeed by a group of engineers of the same view and used the same the type of bearings for their washing machines as articulated lorries use... apparently. I looked them up and unfortunately their fate seems to just support the above view: http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/abou ... appliances

You are quite right, its complicated issue, many things affect the cost of goods.

Personally I don't have a problem with good being made as essentially disposable, probably a good 90% of the good we buy are disposable in some form or another. I would like to see them being made to be more easily recyclable where possible.

Myself, I would rather replace something that works reliably for 5-6 years than have something that lasts 15-20 years but requires repair every 2 or 3 years incurring cost, lost time, possible flooding of my kitchen, increased inefficiency etc etc.

I am a bit of an environmentalist so can’t agree with this, disposable products are fundemundementally un-sustainable. This is due to the constant need for energy and materials to make more are make more, and thats not even taking to account the disposing of them afterwards. Recycling is all well and good, but to be sustainable you need to remove all the through away waste and do it with miniumal energy use... this is challenging with packaging already let alone something as complex as a washing machine. In short long lasting machines a way better for the enviroment (which we cannot replace) from what I understand.

From what people say it looks to me that there is not signifcant long term cost difference between a cheap modern disposable machine and a older one designed to last decades. The difference is paying £1000 every 10 years or £200 every two... or something similar.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Well, the new Hotpoint's in - it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts. There's a free ten year parts guarantee so long as you have any repair done through them ...................... with a charge of £109.99 per repair. I think I'll stick with the insurance.

 

[bugbear]

From what people say it looks to me that there is not signifcant long term cost difference between a cheap modern disposable machine and a older one designed to last decades. The difference is paying £1000 every 10 years or £200 every two... or something similar.

That was my conclusion.

Dealing with a dying machine is a pain, dealing with any damage (e.g. leaks) caused by a dying machine is a pain, choosing and getting delivery of a new machine is a pain, learning the quirks of a new machine is a pain.

So I go with the every 10 year option, since it's the same cost as the every 2 year option.

But with less pain.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think because of the ages of most us we still expect any machine to last more than ten years anyway.

 

[bugbear]

I think because of the ages of most us we still expect any machine to last more than ten years anyway.

Google is very helpful:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27253103

BugBear

 

[Rorschach]

For a modern manufactures success comes through sales, other concerns come very much second. Manufacturers who don’t prioritise in this manner constantly risk losing profits and going out if business, like it or not thats the reality our current culture them into.

This thread reminded me of a company a collegue mentioned years ago, he was also sick of unreliable washing machines. I remember him saying they were foundeed by a group of engineers of the same view and used the same the type of bearings for their washing machines as articulated lorries use... apparently. I looked them up and unfortunately their fate seems to just support the above view: http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/abou ... appliances

You are quite right, its complicated issue, many things affect the cost of goods.

Personally I don't have a problem with good being made as essentially disposable, probably a good 90% of the good we buy are disposable in some form or another. I would like to see them being made to be more easily recyclable where possible.

Myself, I would rather replace something that works reliably for 5-6 years than have something that lasts 15-20 years but requires repair every 2 or 3 years incurring cost, lost time, possible flooding of my kitchen, increased inefficiency etc etc.

I am a bit of an environmentalist so can’t agree with this, disposable products are fundemundementally un-sustainable. This is due to the constant need for energy and materials to make more are make more, and thats not even taking to account the disposing of them afterwards. Recycling is all well and good, but to be sustainable you need to remove all the through away waste and do it with miniumal energy use... this is challenging with packaging already let alone something as complex as a washing machine. In short long lasting machines a way better for the enviroment (which we cannot replace) from what I understand.

From what people say it looks to me that there is not signifcant long term cost difference between a cheap modern disposable machine and a older one designed to last decades. The difference is paying £1000 every 10 years or £200 every two... or something similar.

I understand the environmental view there, I applaud your ethics. unfortunately I cannot afford to do that. £100+ a year versus my £30 or less a year assuming no faults on either. However it seems that most here while their machines are lasting 10+ years, that is not without a few hundred £'s of maintenance over those years.

 

[Rhyolith]

From what people say it looks to me that there is not signifcant long term cost difference between a cheap modern disposable machine and a older one designed to last decades. The difference is paying £1000 every 10 years or £200 every two... or something similar.

That was my conclusion.

Dealing with a dying machine is a pain, dealing with any damage (e.g. leaks) caused by a dying machine is a pain, choosing and getting delivery of a new machine is a pain, learning the quirks of a new machine is a pain.

So I go with the every 10 year option, since it's the same cost as the every 2 year option.

But with less pain.

BugBear

Agree totally. I find constantly having to replace items very annoying for the reasons you say, plus the nuisance of disposable and the issue of environmental damage.

Something else to think about (was suggested in that article Andy linked) is that the current pervasive tendency of disposable products seems to result in more profit for the company's that make them. Logically that means more money is going from consumers to corporations with this system, so it is more expensive for consumers to constantly buy new products than maintain old ones. Of course it could be that because the disposable products are cheaper, more consumers are buying them (oppose to individuals spending more), I suspect its both.

 

[Rhyolith]

I understand the environmental view there, I applaud your ethics. unfortunately I cannot afford to do that. £100+ a year versus my £30 or less a year assuming no faults on either. However it seems that most here while their machines are lasting 10+ years, that is not without a few hundred £'s of maintenance over those years.

I think its highly debatable whether disposable machines are cheaper in the long term (short term, yes). Its a big assumption that your going to have to spend £100s to maintain a quality machine to last 10years. Personally i'd expect to pay £700-1000 for a high quality new machine, it then last 10 years with no major (i.e. expensive) issue and then to have to invest in maintenance to prolong its life beyond that point.

 

[Rorschach]

I understand the environmental view there, I applaud your ethics. unfortunately I cannot afford to do that. £100+ a year versus my £30 or less a year assuming no faults on either. However it seems that most here while their machines are lasting 10+ years, that is not without a few hundred £'s of maintenance over those years.

I think its highly debatable whether disposable machines are cheaper in the long term (short term, yes). Its a big assumption that your going to have to spend £100s to maintain a quality machine to last 10years. Personally i'd expect to pay £700-1000 for a high quality new machine, it then last 10 years with no major (i.e. expensive) issue and then to have to invest in maintenance to prolong its life beyond that point.

Well what do you consider maintenance costs?

Lets say in those 10 years it needs a new belt, well there's an £80 call out charge here, plus lets say £20 inc Vat for the belt, and you might have to take a day off work too. I call that expensive maintenance. New bearings? £80 plus maybe £50 in bearings, plus Vat and another day off work. It quickly adds up.

It's like insurance/breakdown policies, people often don't think about the real maths behind it. I just explained to my mother that her £800 oven actually cost her £2100. Why? Because she took out an extended warranty type cover plan, over the course of 15 years that cover cost over £1200 and the only fault she had with it was a broken bulb, guess what that bulb wasn't covered and it cost £60 or £70 (ish) to replace.
You take your chances, you weigh up risks, for me that usually means going for a cheaper (not necessarily cheapest) option.

Remember also that the sale of goods acts states an item must last for a reasonable period of time. I think it perfectly reasonable for even a cheapish washing machine to last 5 years and if it fails before that then you are entitled to some money back and most companies will not go to the hassle of letting a judge decide that, they will pay out.

 

[Rhyolith]

Maintenance is a game of chance with almost anything and your looking at only the worse case scenario. Lets say it does not need a new belt for 20 years then its suddenly a lot cheaper, just like if you buy a disposable machine and it brakes as soon as the warranty expires its becomes more expensive.

You also assuming you cannot repair the problem yourself. I imagine with something like a washing machine if its built to be repairable, most people could manage the majority of repairs themselves without much difficulty. This takes away yet more cost and suddenly the disposable machines can be quite expensive by comparison.

As said I think if you look at from a purely financial standpoint there is little to no difference between the philosophy of longevity or throw away, taking the "average" scenario for both. Its just a question of how often you want to be bothered with shorting out the washing machine. Add to that the clear energy and material wastage of disposable products and it becomes a no brainer to me.

 

[Rorschach]

Like I said, you weigh up the risks and take your chances. You choose your way and I choose mine, without a lifelong analysis we will never know who was right so as long as we are both happy in our choices then it's all good

It's like like saying hand tools or power tools, which is better? lol

 

[Rhyolith]

Like I said, you weigh up the risks and take your chances. You choose your way and I choose mine, without a lifelong analysis we will never know who was right so as long as we are both happy in our choices then it's all good

It's like like saying hand tools or power tools, which is better? lol

Happiness is underrated :mrgreen:

I know what your saying and to be honest I don't think there is a right answer with something like this... its basically a complicated dice roll every time.

The only spanner in the works for me is the global environmental issue of disposable goods, which seems to be quite a serious one. Continuing down this path as a society looks to involve major compromises for society and the country down the road, not to mention the world. Considering the dubious benefits and negligible financial difference I see no reason to take that risk and due to the magnitude of the problem, feel obligated to convince others as such.

 

[Mark A]

Bought a freezer for my mum. Arrived on Saturday -£160 Indesit. Mum phoned today to tell me all the food was defrosting. Rang curry's who said they'd need to send a technician to confirm it's faulty- apparently sending a picture of the defrosted meat isn't sufficient. I said instead of having to wait a day then wait for the 3 hour window for the technician to arrive, could I just send it back and order another "Nope, because you said it's faulty "- So my words good enough for them to not accept a return, but not good enough to allow an exchange. Wasted over 4 hours today trying to find a replacement so the contents of the freezer could be saved.

I hate Curry's with a passion now. I hope they go bust !

I had EXACTLY the same trouble with a dishwasher I bought from AO.com a fortnight ago. It was delivered faulty but they insisted on sending out an "engineer" to confirm that it was indeed fooked. Waited four days for him to turn up and he was in and out within 5 minutes. That one was a Baumatic and the replacement from AO is a Beko - both super cheap and nasty machines, but if it lasts longer than our previous dishwasher, a Bosch which cost a fair bit more and was plagued with problems from the start, then I'm happy.