How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[RobinBHM]

These worldwide scientific experts ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rnment-prepare-for-the-wrong-kind-of-pandemic
Follow the science !!

It's just like saying follow the politics.

Thats a very interesting article although I'm not sure it proves the scientists were wrong.

here is an extract from Reuters article:

(Note: SPI-M is flu pandemic modelling committee)


"Edmunds recalled that “from about mid January onwards, it was absolutely obvious that this was serious, very serious.” Graham Medley, a professor of infectious diseases modelling at the London School and chairman of SPI-M, agreed. He said that the committee was “clear that this was going to be big from the first meeting.” At the end of January, his committee moved into “wartime” mode, he said, reporting directly into SAGE.

Dr Jon Read, a senior lecturer in biostatistics at the University of Lancaster, also a member of SPI-M, said by the end of January it was apparent the virus had “pandemic potential” and that death rates for the elderly were brutal. “From my perspective within the sort of modelling community, everybody’s aware of this, and we’re saying that this is probably going to be pretty bad,” he said.

But the scientists did not articulate their fears forcefully to the government, minutes of committee meetings reveal."

the initial failure doesn't seem to stem from following the wrong science but:

As they watched China impose its lockdown, the British scientists assumed that such drastic actions would never be acceptable in a democracy like the UK. Among those modelling the outbreak, such stringent counter-measures were not, at first, examined.

“We had milder interventions in place,” said Edmunds, because no one thought it would be acceptable politically “to shut the country down.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/hea...d-the-alarm-idUKL4N2BV3CA?edition-redirect=uk

 

[Jameshow]

I wonder too if Japan / China might also have some immunity due to previous exposure to SARS / mers etc.

Some scientists seem to think so according to several newspaper articles.

Cheers James

 

[RobinBHM]

I wonder too if Japan / China might also have some immunity due to previous exposure to SARS / mers etc.

Some scientists seem to think so according to several newspaper articles.

Cheers James

that could well be the case.

one thing is certain; these countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all had experience of dealing with similar viruses and the public are used to wearing masks and social distancing.

back in Jan 2020, I used to watch the images of people walking along the street wearing masks thinking how weird it was.

Now if Im watching TV of some old footage of people in the street -Im thinking, why is that person shaking hands, why are they standing so close together.....

 

[Rorschach]

I wonder too if Japan / China might also have some immunity due to previous exposure to SARS / mers etc.

Some scientists seem to think so according to several newspaper articles.

Cheers James

Certainly possible and plausible. Same goes for Aus and NZ too and might explain why they found it easier to keep their outbreaks under control.

 

[Selwyn]

if you know the answer, please provide it.

if you dont, then I can presume its just conjecture

No I'm asking you. You are making the claim

 

[Selwyn]

that could well be the case.

one thing is certain; these countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all had experience of dealing with similar viruses and the public are used to wearing masks and social distancing.

back in Jan 2020, I used to watch the images of people walking along the street wearing masks thinking how weird it was.

Now if Im watching TV of some old footage of people in the street -Im thinking, why is that person shaking hands, why are they standing so close together.....

"could well be the case" - you need to man up a bit and come up with better statements than that

The last sentence shows how brainwashed you have now become

 

[Selwyn]

I asked you for data. You made a statement on what is presented to you and made a conclusion on it that displays a lack of understanding.

It's akin to me saying that the moon is made of cheese, because I've seen it, and it looks just like Edam.

It does not make it valid. Just because I say it.

I should have asked you for data to support your hypothesis that "most people are immune anyway" and back up of your hypothesis from a significant body of respected (as in previous work in the field) people. They term normally used is "peer reviewed"


I can't argue with your belief that "most people are immune anyway" but, without giving the above, it is nothing more than your own, fairly worthless, opinion.

I would try and help your understanding by suggesting the case of clamyidia. Most males show no symptoms when they become infected. This is in no way the same as most males being immune from clamydia.

Your own individual interpretation of the data is neither here nor there without being able to show people with a track record in the area confirming your suggestion.

It's harder to systematically tie down errors in opinion in political discussion, but, when someone like yourself starts to make basic scientific statements without supplying the requested information, when asked, you start to look like a bit of a loose cannon.

To regain credibility, I would suggest that you supply some firm data to support your "most people are immune anyway" along with some writings by (a significant number) of others in the field who have gained more respect in the scientific community than yourself.

If you can't or can't be bothered, for anyone of an analytical mindset, your credibility will be significantly reduced.

Ok lets leave it there. Lets see what comes out in a bit and we shall see if there is no evidence for pre existing immunity for Covid 19. I'll bet you there is, why? Because all past immunological research shows a fair proportion of pre existing immunity for all other covids. Covid -19 is novel but it is not that novel, it has so many genetic similarities that it appears to be the highly unlikely to be a brand new virus.

Remember Swine flu?

 

[RobinBHM]

No I'm asking you. You are making the claim

it is not a claim, it is fact

700 healthcare professsionals have died from covid

you are the one banging on about when they died, not me.

you are asking how many died after June...well go on then, lets here the answer

 

[RobinBHM]

Ok lets leave it there. Lets see what comes out in a bit and we shall see if there is no evidence for pre existing immunity for Covid 19. I'll bet you there is, why? Because all past immunological research shows a fair proportion of pre existing immunity for all other covids. Covid -19 is novel but it is not that novel

Of course you want to "leave it there"

its because you've stated an opinion as fact, but when asked you have nothing to back it up.

 

[Selwyn]

it is not a claim, it is fact

700 healthcare professsionals have died from covid

you are the one banging on about when they died, not me.

you are asking how many died after June...well go on then, lets here the answer

I don't know. I'm asking you.

The reason is it puts an entirely different inflection on the claim. We know there was a shortage of ppe early on and a different approach up until end of March.

 

[RobinBHM]

Because all past immunological research shows a fair proportion of pre existing immunity for all other covids

once again

opinion stated as fact.

why do you do it? ..........is it because in you mind, you've already turned it in to fact, without the evidence.

 

[Selwyn]

Of course you want to "leave it there"

its because you've stated an opinion as fact, but when asked you have nothing to back it up.

Not at all.

Heres one
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...ponse-to-COVID-19-thanks-to-common-colds.aspx
Heres another
https://www.immunology.org/news/coronavirus-immunology-qa-what-you-need-know-about-our-new-report

 

[Selwyn]

once again

opinion stated as fact.

why do you do it? ..........is it because in you mind, you've already turned it in to fact, without the evidence.

I gave you factual evidence from Wales that the viral cases peaked before the lockdown. It was there in plain sight. You didn't like it so ignored it.

What can I do?

You are not going to answer me the question about how many health workers have died since June of Covid are you?

 

[RobinBHM]

Certainly possible and plausible. Same goes for Aus and NZ too and might explain why they found it easier to keep their outbreaks under control.

No, its because Australia and NZ used the strategy elimination of community transmission.

 

[Droogs]

Robin, Jullian you guys aren't going to get him to change about anything. Why not go do something a lot easier, like teach a mushroom calculus

 

[julianf]

[

Ok lets leave it there. Lets see what comes out in a bit and we shall see if there is no evidence for pre existing immunity for Covid 19. I'll bet you there is, why? Because all past immunological research shows a fair proportion of pre existing immunity for all other covids. Covid -19 is novel but it is not that novel, it has so many genetic similarities that it appears to be the highly unlikely to be a brand new virus.

Remember Swine flu?

No, let's not leave it there.

I asked you to submit some peer reviewed evidence to support your claim that most of the population is immune to covid.

I pointed out that you would loose credibility if you were not able to do so.

You're response?

"Let's leave it there"


That's an appalling response. Shame on you.

 

[RobinBHM]

Not at all.

Heres one

it has the word "may" in the headline, hardly conclusive.

article published 14th Dec:

"Currently, several scientists have suggested that a significant proportion of the population have pre-existing immunity because of T cells primed against SARS-CoV-2 antigens before exposure. This is thought to be the result of prior infection by the cross-reactive endemic human coronaviruses. However, a new study published in the preprint server bioRxiv* in 2020 concludes that this may not be the case."
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...result-of-seasonal-coronavirus-infection.aspx

 

[RobinBHM]

Why not go do something a lot easier, like teach a mushroom calculus

I'm sure theres a "fun-gi" joke in there somewhere

 

[Selwyn]

[


No, let's not leave it there.

I asked you to submit some peer reviewed evidence to support your claim that most of the population is immune to covid.

I pointed out that you would loose credibility if you were not able to do so.

it has the word "may" in the headline, hardly conclusive.

article published 14th Dec:

"Currently, several scientists have suggested that a significant proportion of the population have pre-existing immunity because of T cells primed against SARS-CoV-2 antigens before exposure. This is thought to be the result of prior infection by the cross-reactive endemic human coronaviruses. However, a new study published in the preprint server bioRxiv* in 2020 concludes that this may not be the case."
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...result-of-seasonal-coronavirus-infection.aspx

Immunlogical history shows that there is an awful lot of prior immunity to virus'. So it is there. Either of us can churn out data from a google search to pro or con that at our choosing. To me its pretty obvious there is prior immunity based on other covids.

Are you going tell me these health worker deaths or are you going to skate over it?

 

[Selwyn]

I wonder too if Japan / China might also have some immunity due to previous exposure to SARS / mers etc.

Some scientists seem to think so according to several newspaper articles.

Cheers James

that could well be the case.

So can people be immune or not?

You can't have it both ways!

Most of you guys are denying that this novel virus from an ancient family of seasonal virus' is behaving in a way that anyone who observed its closest relatives might have been able to predict.