How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Selwyn]

You claim Covid is seasonal.

It is not, as the extensive evidence I've shown proves.


Your opinion is that Covid waves are determined by seasonality and lockdowns have no effect......you are rigidly sticking to your belief and are dogmatically picking and choosing data to try and support your argument.



Choice supportive bias is preventing you from doing unbiased research and critical thinking.........you are denying yourself the truth which limits your understanding of the disease.

Not at all. You invoked hot and cold weather as "proof". I did not. There is more to seasons than that. You need to understand a bit more that it is not about absolute temperatures.

I've mentioned some great examples of where no lockdown appears to have had no significant difference (sweden, japan, s dakota, florida). Some countries weren't even badly affected until their first wave came in October.

You will get it eventually, probably in about 18 months or more. A virus will do what a virus will do - what they have all done - ebb and flow. A government won't stop a virus. Lockdown won't either. Small changes in human behaviour can help.

 

[Noel]

Maybe we should have had a more lenient lockdown like Japan then? Fanatics won't like it

Japanese public generally take heed for the public good. Elsewhere, especially UK, not so much.

 

[RobinBHM]

Of course you can identify vulnerable people you daft man.

Here you go again....stating opinion as fact.

Yet with zero back up of evidence.


You can't just dismiss things you don't like because it doesn't fit your narrative......science doesn't work like that.

If you notice, I back up my posts with quotes which are linked and from reliable sources.





“Logistically, how on earth are we to both identify those at risk and effectively separate them from the rest of society? Basing risk primarily upon risk of death completely ignores the profound morbidity associated with the pandemic, including what we now term as “long COVID”, plus the criteria by which one or more risk factors might predispose towards severe disease remain both uncertain and incredibly diverse – we have only lived with this virus for ten months, we simply do not understand it well enough to attempt this with any surety

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

 

[RobinBHM]

You invoked hot and cold weather as "proof". I did not

Classic strawman.

I included various quotes, which included temperature, its not the only factor.

 

[Selwyn]

Has no one found it remarkable how few deaths there have been in prison with covid? Its a reasonable petri dish.

I mean if carers are considered to spread covid coming into care homes,or I could spread it going into a newsagent is it not the same for prison workers?

 

[RobinBHM]

A virus will do what a virus will do - what they have all done - ebb and flow

Not in the pandemic stage of a virus.
Not when variants are happening

Seasonality doesn't happen until herd immunity is reached......widely understood by virologists......not so much by you.

 

[Selwyn]

Here you go again....stating opinion as fact.

Yet with zero back up of evidence.


You can't just dismiss things you don't like because it doesn't fit your narrative......science doesn't work like that.

If you notice, I back up my posts with quotes which are linked and from reliable sources.





“Logistically, how on earth are we to both identify those at risk and effectively separate them from the rest of society? Basing risk primarily upon risk of death completely ignores the profound morbidity associated with the pandemic, including what we now term as “long COVID”, plus the criteria by which one or more risk factors might predispose towards severe disease remain both uncertain and incredibly diverse – we have only lived with this virus for ten months, we simply do not understand it well enough to attempt this with any surety

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/...lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

So now instead of trying to get those who are vulnerable to look after themselves, we have to pretend that everyone is vulnerable (even though they are not). Its classic levelling down. Its inane

 

[RobinBHM]

Has no one found it remarkable how few deaths there have been in prison with covid? Its a reasonable petri dish.

I mean if carers are considered to spread covid coming into care homes,or I could spread it going into a newsagent is it not the same for prison workers?

No because prisoners and prison officers can maintain social,distancing.

There's no equivalence to care homes.

 

[RobinBHM]

So now instead of trying to get those who are vulnerable to look after themselves, we have to pretend that everyone is vulnerable (even though they are not). Its classic levelling down. Its inane

Appeal to extremes logical fallacy.


And a deflection.....because you can't provide any evidence to back up your claim it's possible to protect the vulnerable.

Why have there been healthcare workers, bus drivers etc dying from Covid......because some are vulnerable.
Could government identify all those and shield them all........NO.

 

[RobinBHM]

You will get it eventually, probably in about 18 months or more

What will I get....that your dishonest debating proves you are right....not so much, I'm afraid.

That I, and the bulk of scientists and the bulk of governments are wrong.....and that Selwyn is right.

 

[Selwyn]

No because prisoners and prison officers can maintain social,distancing.

There's no equivalence to care homes.

Oh well if its just social distancing we need to do then what are we worrying about?

We can all do that. Lucky these prisoners are all singing happy birthday when washing their hands eh.

Appeal to extremes logical fallacy.


And a deflection.....because you can't provide any evidence to back up your claim it's possible to protect the vulnerable.

Why have there been healthcare workers, bus drivers etc dying from Covid......because some are vulnerable.
Could government identify all those and shield them all........NO.

Well if we can protect prisoners from covid why is it we can't protect the more vulnerable? Prisoners are as likely to have underlying health conditions too.

Yes bus drivers etc have died particularly in the beginning when no one was so careful. As I've asked you before how many health workers and bus drivers have died since June?

 

[Selwyn]

What will I get....that your dishonest debating proves you are right....not so much, I'm afraid.

That I, and the bulk of scientists and the bulk of governments are wrong.....and that Selwyn is right.

Well I look forward to hearing you wanting a lockdown next times influenza rises too. Lockdown makes no sense.

 

[RobinBHM]

Lockdown makes no sense.

What you mean is: lockdowns make no sense to Selwyns opinions.

 

[RobinBHM]

Yes bus drivers etc have died particularly in the beginning when no one was so careful

oh really?

how have people become more careful?

are you now saying bus drivers are no longer vulnerable to covid?

 

[RobinBHM]

Oh well if its just social distancing we need to do then what are we worrying about?

lockdown interventions are mostly used for social distancing

can you tell me what lockdown interventions have been put in place for something other than social distancing?






Theres a difference between prisoners and the general public.

its not difficult to lockdown prisoners, its kind of the whole idea

 

[julianf]

There will also be a lot of people with immunity. Fullstop.

Most people are immune anyway. The data shows that.

I asked you for data. You made a statement on what is presented to you and made a conclusion on it that displays a lack of understanding.

It's akin to me saying that the moon is made of cheese, because I've seen it, and it looks just like Edam.

It does not make it valid. Just because I say it.

I should have asked you for data to support your hypothesis that "most people are immune anyway" and back up of your hypothesis from a significant body of respected (as in previous work in the field) people. They term normally used is "peer reviewed"


I can't argue with your belief that "most people are immune anyway" but, without giving the above, it is nothing more than your own, fairly worthless, opinion.

I would try and help your understanding by suggesting the case of clamyidia. Most males show no symptoms when they become infected. This is in no way the same as most males being immune from clamydia.

Your own individual interpretation of the data is neither here nor there without being able to show people with a track record in the area confirming your suggestion.

It's harder to systematically tie down errors in opinion in political discussion, but, when someone like yourself starts to make basic scientific statements without supplying the requested information, when asked, you start to look like a bit of a loose cannon.

To regain credibility, I would suggest that you supply some firm data to support your "most people are immune anyway" along with some writings by (a significant number) of others in the field who have gained more respect in the scientific community than yourself.

If you can't or can't be bothered, for anyone of an analytical mindset, your credibility will be significantly reduced.

 

[RobinBHM]

As I've asked you before how many health workers and bus drivers have died since June?

if you know the answer, please provide it.

if you dont, then I can presume its just conjecture

 

[julianf]

If you can't or can't be bothered, for anyone of an analytical mindset, your credibility will be significantly reduced.

I have realised now, that the reality is that I will get a reply with a load of words and no clear answer.

So to preempt that.

A properly presented data set.
Support for the hypothesis by more than a couple of respected people working in the field. Ie people who have published papers.

I really don't mean a link to a daily mail news article and a load of irrelevant chat.

Again, properly presented data (not just "can't you see?" etc, as evidently I can not)
Names and links to text of people supporting your hypothesis. Not daily mail comments section. Actual people with letters after their names who work in the field.

Thank you.

 

[Misterdog]

The reason more people haven't had it is because thankfully governments around the world make decisions based on experts and data.....not from people like you.

These worldwide scientific experts ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rnment-prepare-for-the-wrong-kind-of-pandemic
Follow the science !!

It's just like saying follow the politics.

 

[billw]

Japanese public generally take heed for the public good. Elsewhere, especially UK, not so much.

Correct, huge cultural difference. You won't see any Japanese flapping their arms around screaming 'but what about MY RIGHTS'.