How to make a skirting profile

[Chip shop]

I have to replace some skirting in a friends gaff. It's only a couple of yards that were terminated by a fitted unit during the original build.

The profile is one I haven't come across before:

I don't want to have knives ground for the spindle as they'd never get used again, and I don't have any blanks to grind my self.

I could do with fitting tomorrow as I have to go over to patch some floor board.

So the question is; how would you lot do it?

Cheers,

Ed

 

[custard]

Couple of yards? Then I'd use these,

Most of the stock removal is done by machine, but for that final bit of fairing-in to match an awkward profile or radius then a moulding plane is still quicker than anything else.

 

[PAC1]

You could form most of the top part of the moulding down to the start of the bulbous curve with a rebate block on the spindle and hand planes. You could form the lower part with a router cutter and then hand plane, chisel and sand to suit.
If you have moulding planes all the better.
It is only where it joins existing that the profile needs to be perfect the rest as long as fair and smooth you have licence to be creative.

 

[Doug71]

I did something similar last week, I did lots of passes with the router using a small cove bit and a straight bit to get it near as I could then finished by hand with planes and sandpaper.

 

[Ttrees]

Would grinding these profiles for the spindle moulder be the reason you have a linisher Custard?
I would imagine its a fairly tricky process to grind a profile on even the hand powered variety.

Tom

 

[ColeyS1]

Would grinding these profiles for the spindle moulder be the reason you have a linisher Custard?
I would imagine its a fairly tricky process to grind a profile on even the hand powered variety.

Tom

Back in the day it wouldn't be that tricky to just grind the one cutter to match.
Had a recent job where I needed to match skirting and architraves so paid for a so called 'professional' to grind them. 3 sets got sent back and a full refund was given.

One set of cutters provided a mould with absolutely no detail. It was as if the profile had got sanded with 60grit and a sanding block.
The next was a skirting profile. All set up and did a little test only for it to kick back and nearly chuck it out my hand.

The limiters stuck out further than the cutters !!!! Also the cutting edge wasn't ground sharp

If you look at the straight bit on the right hand side, you'll see its still flat from the factory.
The last cutter looked good. The only thing was they ground so much away, half the profile was buried in the cutter block. Had to remake that one by hand and fit a suitable balancer.
Lesson learnt. No matter who makes the cutters give them the once over with a keen eye. Compare the limiter length to the cutter length, don't assume they'll have been made correctly. Needless to say they won't be making spindle cutters for me anymore !


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[Inspector]

I would either do what Doug did, a router. Or use the table saw taking multiple passes on the table saw and then finish with hand planes and sandpaper. You could also use the saw and router if that suits you too.

 

[Chip shop]

Well, bearing in mind this is a bit like back in the day, and I'm not 'working', I found an old Whitehill block & cutters in the back of the cupboard and ground the curves on them. Finished with a fancy Veritas rebate plane.

 

[Inspector]

Where are the pictures? No pics, no happen.

 

[Chip shop]

OK, if was to do this slightly dodgy thing...and obviously I wouldn't:

First I work out what profile I needed, then I mark it on a scrap knife:

This looks awful, but bear in mind we're only cutting a couple of yards.

Run the profile, with a powerfeed right close...

Then do some of this:

Now I know what you're all thinking, that's some really manky spruce, but it'll all get filled before it's painted and this is how it rolls in the real world sometimes.

 

[Inspector]

Thanks. I was really only interested in seeing the actual baseboard. :wink: Did you run of a second in case there is a fitting issue upon installation? Whenever I only have just enough I invariably need more. :roll:

Pete

 

[Jacob]

OK, if was to do this slightly dodgy thing...and obviously I wouldn't:

First I work out what profile I needed, then I mark it on a scrap knife:

This looks awful, but bear in mind we're only cutting a couple of yards.

Run the profile, with a powerfeed right close...

Then do some of this:

Now I know what you're all thinking, that's some really manky spruce, but it'll all get filled before it's painted and this is how it rolls in the real world sometimes.

It's not dodgy it's normal. Making your own cutters to match a profile is easy and highly effective. Often better than what you get from machine copies. Dirt cheap too - cheaper than router cutters by far.

Power feed essential. Or if you are used to push sticks they will do instead - but only for the experienced, not for the faint hearted!

It's essential to make up the cutters from a sample, not from a drawing, then you can offer up and check for accuracy.

Or use moulding planes as Custard says. This is what they are for.

 

[mr edd]

I think post poster might have meant dodgy as whitehill blocks can if incorrectly used launch the cutter out of the head. They as also as you can see from the photos have no limiters.

The fact you could grind and grind the profile until there was only a tiny bit of cutter left that positively clamped in the block has i am sure been the cause of more than one random hole hole in the workshop wall,

This why they have been replaced by blocks of a much safer design, albeit you now have 4 cutters which need grinding to profile, ( 2 cutters and 2 limiters), with a whitehill you grind 1 cutter and balance the block with anything of a similar weight which was out of the cut.

Just for historical interest only obviously.

 

[Jacob]

It's possible to use many machines incorrectly - yanks demonstrate this with table saw regularly on youtube. Safety cutters can be misused too - a badly fitted cutter can snap and launch half a cutter into space.
So yes a bit of brain power and common sense is needed. Also power feed or long push sticks (in the hands of an experienced push sticker) means no limiters is no prob. Coming into contact with the blades is the most common accident but this is easily avoided if a safe routine is set up.
So don't do it if you are accident prone. If in the past you have experienced any cut, ever, from misusing a machine then you are probably accident prone!

PS oddly enough this morning I was using that Whitehill block you gave me Ed (thanks for that). Just some quarter round beading - but some home made cutters!
I had a cutter fly loose once many years ago - the previous user had left it half adjusted without telling anyone. It broke and flew out with a bang - a few bits stuck in the workpiece and a few bits in the well (big bite out of the metal edge) but no other damage. I think sticking your fingers in is a much more likely hazard scenario for most.

 

[Chip shop]

I'd add the caveat, that if you're new to spindle moulders then stick to modern blocks and cutters. The first time I used a moulding machine it was all square blocks and balancing on a tool setting stand. It was a pain in the arse, but certainly made you understand when something wasn't right, just by the noise.

The spindle moulder has (a highly unfair) bad rep in the workshop. I reckon it's the safest machine I use, due to my respect for it.

Worst machine by far (most fingers I've seen lost) is the over hand plane.

Second is horrible kick backs on a table saws (generally with no riving knife)

STOP: Think about the cut you're about to make.

LOOK: Is there anything 'round your feet, on the machine table or outfeed that will cause a problem

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY LISTEN: If the machine doesn't sound right then it's probably not right.

The above isn't meant to be condescending, but I've spent a lifetime working with machines and I rarely **** up, but the number of times I've left a chuck key in the drill chuck is quite disturbing.

 

[Chip shop]

I think post poster might have meant dodgy as whitehill blocks can if incorrectly used launch the cutter out of the head. They as also as you can see from the photos have no limiters.

The fact you could grind and grind the profile until there was only a tiny bit of cutter left that positively clamped in the block has i am sure been the cause of more than one random hole hole in the workshop wall,

This why they have been replaced by blocks of a much safer design, albeit you now have 4 cutters which need grinding to profile, ( 2 cutters and 2 limiters), with a whitehill you grind 1 cutter and balance the block with anything of a similar weight which was out of the cut.

Just for historical interest only obviously.

Well yeah, but how many overhand planes have a chip limiter block? I really don't see the reasoning, unless by 4 cutter your referring mech feed.

Soz, I've had a Stella and I think I'm trying to find an argument. Peace and Love.

 

[Doug71]

I'd add the caveat, that if you're new to spindle moulders then stick to modern blocks and cutters. The first time I used a moulding machine it was all square blocks and balancing on a tool setting stand. It was a pain in the buttocks, but certainly made you understand when something wasn't right, just by the noise.

The spindle moulder has (a highly unfair) bad rep in the workshop. I reckon it's the safest machine I use, due to my respect for it.

Worst machine by far (most fingers I've seen lost) is the over hand plane.

Second is horrible kick backs on a table saws (generally with no riving knife)

STOP: Think about the cut you're about to make.

LOOK: Is there anything 'round your feet, on the machine table or outfeed that will cause a problem

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY LISTEN: If the machine doesn't sound right then it's probably not right.

The above isn't meant to be condescending, but I've spent a lifetime working with machines and I rarely pineapple up, but the number of times I've left a chuck key in the drill chuck is quite disturbing.

I know it's going off topic but I agree with the above.

When I am using the spindle moulder it is well guarded so hopefully shouldn't get any fingers in it.

On the table saw if you keep the guard on and use push sticks you should be fine (no removing guard and silly sleds).

The surface planer is one where the guards are often not set correctly and also the blades are exposed when the timber is not over them.

I think the other problem with surface planers is that on most other machines you are generally dealing with straight square timber but with the surfacer the wood is sometimes bent/twisted so you find yourself having to force it down onto the table or pushing against the fence which is when hands slip and fingers go where they shouldn't. I have never got on with using push sticks on the surface planer.

 

[Jacob]

I'd add the caveat, that if you're new to spindle moulders then stick to modern blocks and cutters. The first time I used a moulding machine it was all square blocks and balancing on a tool setting stand. It was a pain in the buttocks, but certainly made you understand when something wasn't right, just by the noise.

The spindle moulder has (a highly unfair) bad rep in the workshop. I reckon it's the safest machine I use, due to my respect for it.

Worst machine by far (most fingers I've seen lost) is the over hand plane.

Second is horrible kick backs on a table saws (generally with no riving knife)

STOP: Think about the cut you're about to make.

LOOK: Is there anything 'round your feet, on the machine table or outfeed that will cause a problem

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY LISTEN: If the machine doesn't sound right then it's probably not right.

The above isn't meant to be condescending, but I've spent a lifetime working with machines and I rarely pineapple up, but the number of times I've left a chuck key in the drill chuck is quite disturbing.

Yes I agree to all that. I'd add slippy floors as a hazard - I got that wrong in my current workshop.
The old square blocks sound alarming but the Whitehill block was the safety block of its day.

......... I have never got on with using push sticks on the surface planer.

It took me some time but I wouldn't be without them now. For general use but also you can do all sorts of silly things safely (if you really must) - like work a 6" length of board over the planer - otherwise impossibly dangerous if just hand held