How to build a builtin wardrobe in an alcove - the technique

[Scrit]

Woodfit also do a similar hinge, here - it's a Blum, so good quality.

Scrit

 

[j]

Scrit, I am afraid I am more confused now. I think I understood it more before

I know what you mean, I thought I had it, looked away and now it's gone again But seing as I don't have any alcoves to fit a wardrobe in, I won't need to try it yet. But I'd like to understand it.

Does it mean you are leaving apparent slots in the edge of carcass? I didn't think Tim said that.
Sorry if I am missing a really obvious point :roll:

I think the two rows of slots are on the back of the face frame. One of the rows will be used to attach the face frame, the others will not be seen as they'll be on the back of the face frame between the carcass and the wonky wall. (they may well get cut off during the scribing process, depending on how much you cut I think.

almost had it there... but no it's gone again.

Hope that helps, and doesn't confuse further.

 

[Scrit]

I think the two rows of slots are on the back of the face frame. One of the rows will be used to attach the face frame, the others will not be seen as they'll be on the back of the face frame between the carcass and the wonky wall. (they may well get cut off during the scribing process, depending on how much you cut I think.

Yessir! Give that man a cupie doll! The slots are indeed on the back face of the face frame and won't ever be seen. It is immaterial whether or not the face frame ends flush with the carcass side or not, the principle is the same. Maybe this will help:

As far as face frame hinges go, there is an alternative. You can use a standard concealed hinge where the plate is attached to the side of the carcass and with that plate set on a spacer block (to match the face frame overlap) or with a large offset base plate as here

Scrit

 

[tim]

Well done Scrit.

Does everyone understand it now?

The only prob with the Blum hinge is that it leaves a big gap between the front of the face frame and the door. You also have to have a frame that overhangs the front of the cabinet as shown in the link drawing. The plate I indicated allows you to use normal concealed hinges giving a tighter fit and more adjustability and gives you the choice of how big a lip you want from zero upwards.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Adam]

Ahh yes, I see now - very clever. Thankyou.

Adam

 

[CYC]

Thanks Scrit and Tim. Thanks for your patience.
I guess my knowledge of hinges got me there

To recap, here is what I understood (using Tim words as explanation):

Cut a row of biscuit slots in the edge of the cabinet side panel.

Cut corresponding slots in the back of the face frame stile to give you whatever lip you want to have inside the cabinet. Then run a further row of slots parallel to the first row on the face frame stile at an arbitrary distance that is greater than the width of the outer edge of the stile to the wall edge.

Set a pair of compasses to the distance from the edge of one biscuit slot to the corresponding edge of the parallel one ie the offset. Place the stile on to the cabinet edge using the paralled set of slots and scribe using the compasses.

Cut the waste away, refit the stile using the original slots and its a perfect fit.

Did i get that right this time :?: :-k

 

[Scrit]

Yes. The face frame doesn't necessarily end flush to the inside of the carcass,there can be a return (which is more normal and is shown that way in my second diagram)

Scrit

 

[CYC]

Yes I understood that eventually!
I was stuck (in my head) with the use of a standard european hinge (the ones you see in all the kitchens and wardrobes around here)

so I was asking about securing those hinges to the inside of the carcass overlapping the thickness of the face frame.

Do you always have the doors flush to the face frame?
And do you recommend having a return, why?

 

[tim]

Good drawing except that XX is wrong. Its measured from the same edge of both slots otherwise you will gain or lose the width of the biscuit as well.

A return is normal because its easier to hide any slight deviations. If you aim for flush and the board has a slight wibble in it then it won't be flush everywhere. Its no different to creating a shadow line or arrising where two parts meet to 'celebrate' the joint. ie its purely aesthetic.


Those are the kind of hinges I use btw CYC. You can use those with the plates I showed. If you look here at the second pic from bottom you'll see them


Cheers

Tim

 

[dedee]

Fascinating thread - thanks guys.

I do hope I can remember this when required.

Andy

 

[CYC]

Thanks Tim, I have touched up the image to correct this mistake.

Now, just to be complete.
How do you build the bottom of the wardrobe?
Do you have any picture/diagram of what it should look like?

On common builtin wardrobes I always see the plinth recessed under the bottom self.

 

[Scrit]

I was stuck (in my head) with the use of a standard european hinge (the ones you see in all the kitchens and wardrobes around here)

so I was asking about securing those hinges to the inside of the carcass overlapping the thickness of the face frame.

That's why I posted the link to the base plate with the 18mm offset. It allows you to use a standard concealed hinge in a face frame with a return. You can also get riser blocks from Blum, Hettich and Salice (possibly others) to achieve the same thing or mount your base plate on a strip/piece of plywood/hardwood, etc which would allow you to utilise a cam-adjuster base plate (much easier). If there is no return (i.e. the face frame edge is flush to the inside of the carcass) then a standard concealed hinge can be used in the same way as on a frameless kitchen cabinet and you'll see the frame between doors. The base plate screws are about 37mm in from the front edge of the carcase with concealed hinges so you do have to work out your clearances carefully, which is one reason to go to lay-on (overlaid) doors with face frame hinges - they're a lot easier to hang.

Do you always have the doors flush to the face frame?
And do you recommend having a return, why?

Inset doors can be done using concealed hinges and are easier to adjust than butt hinges (providing you use cammed adjuster plates), but I prefer to use a butt hinge in that case - just depends on the look I'm after, really. Personal choice.

The return stems from kitchen practice where you have a run of several cabinets which are screwed together then a single face frame is added. In that case you need to use butt hinges or lay-on face frame hinges as you can't guarantee alignment between the carcasses and the face frame.

The way you go with this depends on what you like and how much effort you're willing to put in to achieve a result and as I said - it's all a matter of choice

Scrit

 

[Scrit]

On common built-in wardrobes I always see the plinth recessed under the bottom self.

But you're not building an IKEA special if you're doing a built-in. So that's not the only way to go - you could just as easily add a false plinth built out from the base of the carcass like having a miniature skirting board attached - or even use skirting to match the skirting fitted in the room. Anything goes.

Scrit

 

[tim]

What Scrit said.

If its going onto carpet that they aren't planning to cut back to fit then I generally do recessed.......... otherwise I plant it on to match existing skirting boards.........., unless they are very high or low and would affect the shape and usefulness of the cabinet ie your call.

Cheers

Tim

 

[engineer one]

as far as insetting the doors, you could put spacer blocks for the hinge plates, that way you get the distance. rather than say three blocks you can put a fill strip all the way up. and i do suggest 3 hinges on a door this stall.

as for the plinth, i think it is always a good thing to have a kick gap to allow you to get to the back more easily. by that it is set back by up to
3 inches.

tim's idea is great, and you could always remove the excess inside too.

i do think it is better for a wardrobe to have a back to you don't loose things, because we never pull them out often enough. so make a box, or two, and slide them into the space, then put the frames around them, you get them more stable, and it is easier to manufacture.

final thought, you could always use sliding doors which pull out, and then fold inwards, rather like a tv cabinet, and i know about those.

the final thought is doors, do you have enough space for opening doors, or should you think about using sliding ones?

actually tim your initial explanation was clear and concise thanks =D>

paul :wink:

 

[Les Mahon]

Having just read this thread, I only have one comment....

Why did nobody explain that technique to me years ago????????? :roll:

Very slick solution I like it alot.

Les

 

[CYC]

I am glad this is benefiting many.
I am for one very happy to have brought it up.
Thank you to everyone for their input. I'll post pictures of what I end up building [-o<

 

[JFC]

I too missed this thread So all i can add are some pics :lol:
The false back is a good idea as you have a fixing for half way adjustable shelving as seen in the pic below . Also you can see ive added a strip of 18mm mdf on the side of the central divider to allow for the lay on doors .

With regards to the plinth i go with what the customer wants but if its a high ceiling or a period house i just have to match the mouldings :twisted:
Ive only got a pic of the cornice in progress but im back there on tuesday and can take pics of the finished project if your interested . I also matched the skirtings .

 

[matt]

How many sections are there to your cabinets/wardrobes? If more than 2 then there is a fairly straightforward way to proceed... Lets say we're making a 3 section wardrobe - carcass and face frame:

1. Hang a plumb line against each alcove wall to see how far out they are at their widest point.
2. Build the 2 sections of the wardrobe that will butt up to the walls, making sure that the stile against the wall is wide enough to scribe (this is where the measurment in 1 comes in) whilst remaining sensible proportions.
3. Build a dead-level plint in the alcove.
4. Stand each wardrobe section on the plinth and push it up to touch it's respective sidewall.
5. Scribe, lift off, cut with jigsaw, and then put back an fix in position.
6. You should now have a perfectly square hole inbetween the two side sections in to which to measure, build, and install the final section.

You don't have to have >2 sections - it just adds that layer of flexability.

Matt

 

[johnelliott]

Many of the replies are dealing with face frames and how to fit them. Why bother with a face frame at all? Is it an appearance thing?

John