How much 'oomph'?

[heimlaga]

I agree with the others. A well set up table saw should do what you are doing without any problems whatsoever. If it doesn't there is something wroung either with the quality of the saw or with the setup. I don't think you would need a bandsaw at all.

 

[Steve Maskery]

60T for ripping? That is not a good idea unless the blade is about 3 feet in diameter...

 

[Lonsdale73]

Lonsdale

The nuts on mine move easily you need a thinish spanner on the inside and I use a large adjustable on the other. As others have said the nut is LH. Mind your fingers on the teeth.
A blade change takes me less than 5 mins start to finish.

The fence should not be flush at the front as it then protrudes way past the blade. I think that's the reason the ripped wood is not parallel. It is also dangerous as it can induce kick back.

As I told you before ripping does not work well with a 60 t blade. There is a good reason why a variety are available.

Whilst I have no relationship with Charnwood, I think you slagging off their products is unfair
The saw you have costs 10% of what a pro would spend and even they would get pretty much the same issues if they ignore fundamental set up.
You will have exactly the same problems with a bandsaw as they require even more setting up

Lurker,

I do try to be honest and balanced and have pointed out several times now that some of the problems I am having might well be down to my inexperience. I haven't 'slagged off' Charnwood, in fact I haven't even mentioned make or model of table saw and I have stated that others on here have the same model without the same issues which might well be down to them knowing what they're doing whereas I don't. I do recall at least one of you saying it required some fine tuning which suggests something other than 'fundamental set up' and beyond the ken of a complete novice. All part of my learning curve and that's precisely why I signed up to this forum: to learn from those who have more experience and greater knowledge than I do at present. I've also signed up for some evening classes so that I might come to learn such fundamentals.

As you say, the saw I bought cost about 10% of a professional's tool but is still some 500% more than the last one I owned - probably the same B&Q model mind-the-goat has - and, naively perhaps, I thought I was buying a bit higher up the league. I did remember someone saying the tablesaw isn't ideal for ripping and someone else saying I should consider a bandsaw - hence this thread. I didn't want to make the same mistake again. What I have gleaned so far is another 'budget' model might well do what I need - after some fettling - while I could spend ten times as much again and still not get the result I need if I ignore / am wholly unaware of the fundamentals.

The blade might well be blunt now - not so blunt that it didn't take a chunk out of my finger when having another (failed) attempt at blade change - but to be honest the cut wasn't a whole lot better when brand new. I've had another read through the manual - not the illegible and out of date version that came packed with it but the newer one downloaded from their website - and I've assembled the fence as shown in the two illustrations on page 8 so is the manual fundamentally wrong?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Lonsdale
I assume your saw takes a 10" blade, in which case you should buy a good quality blade with 24T, or maybe up to 36T if you are only ripping thin stock. The fewer teethmean that the gullets are bigger and can carry away all the sawdust. Many teeth mean that those gullets are too small and get clogged. Even if the blade is new and sharp it will still give poor results.

As regards the fence - for ripping, you should fit a short fence so that the far end extends just beyond the first teeth, but not as far as TDC of the blade. Depending on the rise & fall mechanism of your saw that might mean that you have to adjust its position slightly for different depths of cut.

For cross-cutting you should not be using the fence at all and for cutting sheet materials like MDF you can use the full-length fence.

There is a video of why the short fence is important here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QXIN2X8-w

I have since made an updated version of the short fence, which includes tool storage, which is on one of my DVDs. I forget which; WE8 probably, though I'd have to check.

I don't mean this nastily, not at all, but it seems to me that you are putting yourself at unnecessary risk. Tablesaws bite if you ask them to do something for which they are not designed. I learned my lesson very early on, and got away lightly, but others are not so lucky.

 

[Lonsdale73]

You assume right, 10" / 250mm blade; I'm guessing z=24 is the number of its teeth?

I've just watched your video (thanks for that) and I'd had my own Archimedes moment the other night when it dawned on my I might be obsessing too much about how parallel the fence is (or isn't) after the cut so long as it's parallel going into the cut. Interestingly, when querying this with the supplier (before finding this forum) I sent photos showing how it was set up and they didn't I had it set too far along the blade.

With regards to blade change, the manual says to use a 10mm spanner to lock the spindle but a 10mm won't go anywhere near it, a 12mm is a bit snug but 13mm too big. I've had to shrink the photo right down to comply with file size limits but you can still just about see the apparent surplus metal that's maybe the source of this particular problem.

 

[PAC1]

The last photograph shows an arrow on the blade does the blade spin so that the arrow points towards the front of the machine when the arrow is at the top of the blade or away from the front? In other words is the front of the machine to the left or right of that last photograph?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well spotted PAC!!!

Unless the machine is a modern-style tilt-to-the-left, the machine will be a trad tilt-to-the-right, in which case we think that the blade is on back to front, which will account for quite a lot.....

 

[Lonsdale73]

The last photograph shows an arrow on the blade does the blade spin so that the arrow points towards the front of the machine when the arrow is at the top of the blade or away from the front? In other words is the front of the machine to the left or right of that last photograph?

To the left. By tilt, blade angles to left when cutting bevels, not that I've cut many

 

[lurker]

Lonsdale

I sorry if I came over crabby
I see you never got the original blade off. You had told me you were going to buy another and replace it.

You need to find spanners that fit both nuts.
I use an adjustable on the side we can see in your photo it's a good quality one about a foot long so my fingers clear the blade but you stil need to be careful.
If you struggle getting a spanner maybe a socket and longish Tommy bar would be better
The inner spanner between the blade and the motor needs to be a thin one you just use this to stop the shaft from moving
If you turn the nut we can see the correct way it gives fairly easily
The photo of the nut suggests it's fine ..... Looks like mine.

The TS does not lack power the answers to it working satisfactory are repeated here several times.

 

[Steve Maskery]

If it is left-tilt it is a modern design, which is actually safer than the trrad, and the blade is on the right way. Phe!

 

[memzey]

It does mean that you need to undo the nut by rotating it anti-clockwise (pulling it towards you) as opposed to the conventional left handed way (which also requires the spanner to be pulled).

 

[lurker]

Steve it's a left tilt.
As you face the TS the motor is to the left which suggests to me the blade is on the right way round.
The original blade was not brilliant although I still use mine for cutting timber that might contain nails
I have ripped 3" dry oak on this saw and with care it's fine.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Lonsdale

I sorry if I came over crabby
I see you never got the original blade off. You had told me you were going to buy another and replace it.

You need to find spinners that fit both nuts.
I use an adjustable on the side we can see in your photo it's a god quality one about a foot long so my fingers clear the blade but you stil need to be careful.
If you struggle getting a spanner maybe a socket and longish Tommy bar would be better
The inner spanner between the blade and the motor needs to be a thin one you just use this to stop the shaft from moving
If you turn the nut we can see the correct way it gives fairly easily

The TS does not lack power the answers to it working satisfactory are repeated here several times.

I really appreciate all the guidance I can get on here (and let's face it, I certainly need it) and I do take it all on board, e.g the point about ripping maybe being better suited to a bandsaw. I ought to be too embarrassed to admit this but earlier this year I ordered a machine and as soon as it arrived I realised I'd ordered the wrong thing completely. It's a scroll saw and that reflects the level I'm at. It sat in its box for over eight months till last week. I've actually got on a lot better with that than the table saw and can see lots of potential applications for it. I did wonder if I could clamp a straight edge to it, would it handle my mould trimming needs which gave rise to my Archimedes moment re: fence length and prompted me to look seriously at bandsaws; hence this thread. I don't think I'll be buying one any time soon; those I can afford right now probably won't help and I certainly don't have enough knowledge or experience to make a more expensive model perform the way it should.

I've made another discovery tonight. Seems if someone else posts a response while I'm still typing out mine then it doesn't submit. I did type out a reply to Pac1 yesterday explaining my initial posts on here had been about my tablesaw issues, acknowledging both that it might be my own inexperience at fault and that others on here had the same model but not the issues. I've hardly used it since we last discussed it - largely because I couldn't get the blade off. Charnwood have said to call in and they'll take a look at it but with a recent bereavement I've not had chance to do that yet.

 

[lurker]

I think everyone here is saying the same thing. The TS should rip fine.
Others might disagree but in my opinion ripping on a bandsaw is not easy, the blade has more scope to wander.

Do you know anyone with a little mechanical ability. I feel sure they will get that nut off.
Once done you should see the light.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Most people find that setting up a bandsaw to rip well is considerably more difficult than setting up a TS to rip well.

 

[Adam9453]

Do you know any forum members that live near you, I think a couple of hours of hands on guidance will not only solve your current issues but put you a lot further ahead on the learning curve.

Any forum members local to Lincoln willing to give Lonsdale some help?

 

[lurker]

Lonsdale, ignore what I said yesterday about how to remove the blade, I have just been and had a try on mine.

You need spanners in the same side of the blade, as can be seen in your photos

An 11mm fits perfectly across the shaft flats, if it doesn't I guess you may have rounded it over
The nut takes a 15/16th AF or 1/2WW .... I don't have a metric that big
Standing at the front pull the spanner on the big nut towards you whilst holding the 11mm still.
You need a slight exertion to loosen it but not much

The longer the spanners are the better and as you have learned you need to avoid the teeth

 

[Lonsdale73]

Lonsdale, ignore what I said yesterday about how to remove the blade, I have just been and had a try on mine.

You need spanners in the same side of the blade, as can be seen in your photos

An 11mm fits perfectly across the shaft flats, if it doesn't I guess you may have rounded it over
The nut takes a 15/16th AF or 1/2WW .... I don't have a metric that big
Standing at the front pull the spanner on the big nut towards you whilst holding the 11mm still.
You need a slight exertion to loosen it but not much

The longer the spanners are the better and as you have learned you need to avoid the teeth

IT'S OFF!

Right, before I screw it up again, what blades should I be looking at? I'd seen the name Tuffsaws bandied about and I went on their site but looks like bandsaw blades only. I bought 48 and 60tpi blades from Nielsen, as it was a name I'd seen mentioned. However, I don't think it's the same Nielsen.

 

[Adam9453]

freud blades are very highly regarded and pretty easy to find.
Remember to buy the appropriate blade for the type of cut and type of material.
I.e. if you want to cross cut oak then buy the right blade for that. if you want to also rip the oak you'll need a blade for that too.
HTH

 

[Steve Maskery]

Right, before I screw it up again, what blades should I be looking at? I'd seen the name Tuffsaws bandied about and I went on their site but looks like bandsaw blades only.

It depends on what you want to cut, how thick it is and in what direction you want to cut it. When you have decided that, call Doug Perry at Cutting Solutions. He will sell you very good blades at sensible prices.

Bear in mind that not all blades are created equal. If a cheap blade can be resharpened only 3 or 4 times because the carbide tips are so small, then it works out more expensive than a higher-priced blade that can happyily be resharpened a dozen times.

I bought 48 and 60tpi blades

I sincerely hope that that is a typo.