How many of you use a hand saw as your main way of ripping?

[LFS19]

I have been through something of the same problem. I did buy a cheap table saw some time ago. I don't like it - it's crude and very noisy and takes up a lot of room and I wouldn't buy one again. But I do use it to rip components to near size, before planing by hand.
I have also experimented with ripping by hand and it's certainly a choice I wouldn't want to be without. It's the only practical choice if the timber is too big and heavy to move round. Or for making deep cuts in thick boards. (I've posted about that.)
My one bit of advice is that you need to be able to support the work properly so that all your effort goes into the cut. For small pieces this means a vice and a solid bench. For big bits, you need to make some trestles or a low sawbench.

If I was starting out now, I'd use a mixture of hand sawing, a band saw and a track saw.

Thanks for the advice. I do actually own a small table top band saw but it doesn't work. Forgot I had it in all honesty. It's a 90's black and Decker I believe but it doesn't cut straight, there's no fence and if I remember correctly it kept slipping off the wheels. Perhaps I should get it out and try and fix it up!

 

[LFS19]

Lidl have a budget Japanese saw on 26th may, for 6 quid I think. Might be worth a shot

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Nice, I'll be on the look out for that. Cheers :lol:

 

[LFS19]

To use a Japanese saw for ripping, a budget one will not do the job. You need a long blade or it becomes hard work and tedious.

I guess a lot depends on how much dimensioning you do and what you are cutting. anything can be ripped by hand, but the compromise is time. Can't hurt to learn to sharpen your saws though.

Interesting, thanks for the input. I'll bare that in mind.

 

[LFS19]

I rip only with hand saws as I don't own (and have no plans to own) any power saws. I do mostly work quite small and primarily in softwoods but this won't change as I move to using more hardwoods.

Ripping by hand is perfectly viable if you decide it's perfectly viable. You just need to look at what was done and is still done entirely using hand saws all over the world. It's physically possible for most of us, so barring a physical limitation that would prevent it the mental side of it is the key thing and that's a different story. Just as not everyone who can thickness all their stock by hand can accept the time and labour that it requires, even if they have the time and are capable of the labour.

My main concern is time taken. As I say I don’t know how much quicker it will be once I’ve sharpened the saws, but the prospect of making say, even a small table, and ripping every part by hand I worry has the potentiallity to take up all of your time.

You're going to get more feedback on this here I'm sure but in the meantime if you search around online you can find blog posts and articles that'll give you a realistic idea of how long rips in thicker, harder woods might take. It can of course be quite significant in thicker and harder stuff, but it's not aaaages if the stock isn't particularly thick and the cuts aren't really long.

With a sharp rip saw you will find ripping a completely different experience to doing it with some blunt old thing. And sharpening rip is a doddle. But I've had a couple of rip panel saws and even freshly sharpened I don't find they cut as fast, or track as well, as my first-fix Predator saw from Spear & Jackson. There are numerous other fans of these saws here. While I haven't had the opportunity to compare to a 'proper' rip saw of 5ppi or so, in direct comparisons with panel saws of similar and the same tooth count as the Predator there's no comparison for me. The modern saw's tooth geometry allows it to cut on both the pull and the push strokes and it cuts very much faster in everything I've tried it on, including some tough hardwoods. Not twice as fast but not far off it.

Now all that said, if I had a circular saw I'd be doing my best to use it as much as possible! Especially for ripping thicker stock and doing any and all particularly long cuts I'd be seeking to overcome the difficulties there as the easiest and most efficient route to getting things done.

Great post, thanks! I'll check out the predator; I too have heard good things about that particular saw.
Good to see someone else successfully rips all their stuff by hand.

 

[LFS19]

LFS19.
When sharpening a saw, don't put too much set on the teeth to start with.
More can be added, if required, but it's not easy to take any off.
Even the Eclipse instructions for the No.77 Saw Set, contradict themselves by saying the numbers on the anvil do/do not correspond to the saws TPI.
Use the numbers as reference points, starting at 11, try the saw, if it binds, reset at 10 or 8. What ever the saws TPI.
You are looking to achieve a narrow kerf, that the saw plate doesn't rattle around in, and removes less saw dust, which equals less work for you!
Hard dry cabinet grade wood, will take much less kerf, than damp soft wood.

Bod

Thanks a lot for the tips as if you haven't had said so I would've undoubtably done it wrong. The set I own is indeed the Eclipse No.77, so it's especially relevant.

 

[LFS19]

Have done it when I've had to but certainly not my main way!
This vid is good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFkh35wbSLw
He gets the position exactly right. Knee on the board and saw downwards. I'd do the same along one or across two saw horses, moving the board a few times to avoid cutting the saw horse.
Another position is to sit legs either side of board and hold saw near vertical with both hands, and saw towards your crotch (carefully!)
What he doesn't show is that it's very fast if you put a lot of energy into it and use the full length of the blade. If the blade doesn't have a nib its a good idea to make a felt tip mark 3 to 4 inches from the end so you don't pull it right out and buckle it on the way back in.
PS you need a long 26" saw with 3 to 5 t.p.i. and teeth filed for ripping. Hard point "Predator" mentioned above sounds good too - I've used similar.
I doubt a Japanese saw would give you any advantage, they are just a fashion accessory!

Ah yes, I've watched that video; it was a good one and very informative. And yes, I think I'll probably pick up the predator as well as sharpening my old Spear and Jackson.
Many thanks

 

[LFS19]

Have you thought of getting a bandsaw. Compared to a table saw they are less expensive, less noisy, less dangerous, and take up less room.
Apart from cutting joints my hand sawing is mainly confined to crosscutting.

John

I do actually own a band saw that until you and the other poster mentioned I'd forgotten about; reason being it doesn't really work.
It's a 90's Black and Decker table top with no fence, likely a dull blade and one that slips off the wheels. I think I'll make a post about it with some pictures and see if I can get it working accurately, as it's been sitting doing nothing for the last couple of years.
But yeah, how stupid of me to forget I had one and to not realise it's potential application for the issue I'm having!

 

[LFS19]

In the workshop where I trained as a cabinet maker the convention was that for most of the first year you only used hand tools. So we ripped loads of hardwood by hand.

It's fairly hard work, but unless you're infirm in some way it's manageable. Here's the thing though, ripping by hand is far more skilled than most people appreciate, they tend to assume that because it's physically hard that must mean it's just grunt work. I can assure you it's both sweaty and technical at the same time!

When you first start your cut will wander like a drunken sailor, so you'll have to steer well to the safe side of your scribe line and be left with loads of clean up work with the plane. After a few months of doing it every day though you'll get pretty slick at it, so much so that if you have a board that's 1/4" too wide you'll rip off the excess rather than plane it off.

Good points, thanks!
Yes, I imagine once you achieve proficiency it becomes far more viable an option.
I'll just need some practice.

 

[thetyreman]

don't bother buying the cheap throw away saws, you can sharpen old saws and they're just as good, the best one I've got is a 5ppi and cost only £7 in a charity shop from the late 1800s, it will last me my lifetime and another few peoples lifetime if looked after and maintained. I rip everything by hand, it really doesn't bother me how long it takes and it improves your skills tenfold once you get the hang of it, sharpening a big toothed ripsaw is also very easy, and you can buy an eclipse saw set for next to nothing. Learn to sharpen and maintain them, it's worth it!

 

[LFS19]

I have to say that I have a massive respect for those of you who only use hand tools but it is not for me. I cut things almost to size with machines and then finish off with the most appropriate tool for the job.

The issue I see with power tools, at least for me, is that buying the tool is never the end of your problems.
I love my Elu Mof97 router. It's a great machine. But in handheld mode it's unwieldy (meaning you really need a table for serious work) and creates an immense amount of dust (requiring a vac and extractor to work safely). Not to mention the fact that you have to have squared material. If you're only using power tools then you need planer (and a standing one as even the good hand held power planes aren't up to much) and also a thicknesser.
So you're looking at around £1500 for the aforementioned tasks alone, which is money I don't think I'll ever have to spend on woodworking.

 

[thetyreman]

I once spent 15-20 minutes ripping 2 inch oak down about 4 foot, no need for gyms or modern diets when you can do that, it keeps you fit.

 

[LFS19]

I had to rip a bunch of boards as they were too large to man handle through the band saw. I picked up an old vintage saw and sharpened it to about 5 tpi and it goes through wood like no other saw I have. Have a look at link below.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/hand-rip-sawing-t105358.html

I was honestly amazed at what s proper low tooth count rip saw could do.

Fitz.

Thanks for the link to your post, Fitz. I'll be sure to give it a read through, looks like an interesting thread.

 

[LFS19]

My rip saw is 26 inch, £2 from a car boot, and inelegantly sharpened by me. I'd guess that a 4 foot cut in a 1 1/2 inch mahogany board takes less than 10 minutes, including a pause for a breather. That might give you an idea how long you'd spend on a small table.

If you're young and fit, quicker than that!

Thanks for the info.
Mine too! Got a Spear & Jackson rip saw for £2. The guy I bought it from was in his 80's and it was his first saw.

 

[LFS19]

In the vids they all seem to be doing it on the edge of a saw stool which I think makes it slightly difficult to hold down. I always did it bridging over two saw horses - much better supported, though you have to move them a bit to avoid cutting them in half etc. Otherwise the same - saw in right hand and right knee on the board

Yeah I did notice that, to be honest. Seemed a bit awkward especially if you have narrower stock.
Thanks!

 

[LFS19]

Other than my cordless drill, I only use hand tools. What I do is, always think ahead. What do I have to do to a piece, what is a comfortable size for doing an operation, what pieces need to be the same length or width and work/match them together so exact size doesn't matter.

So back to ripping, most of my ripping is done in the initial break down of the lumber, and my preffered length is 2 to 3 feet. So I layout and mark where all the pieces will come from the lumber. Then I crosscut when possible so the lengths I will be ripping are in my comfort range. So my work flow usually goes crosscut then rip, crosscut then rip. Or for multiple narrow pieces from a wide width, joint an edge then rip, joint an edge then rip. This way I am not doing one movement for long periods of time.

As for holding a board with my knee, never happens, my knees don't like that. I clamp the board(s) to my workmate and saw them.

That's a good methodical approach, thanks for sharing!
And no, I too don't like the idea of my full weight pressing down onto my knees which are pressing down on a piece of wood! :|

 

[LFS19]

don't bother buying the cheap throw away saws, you can sharpen old saws and they're just as good, the best one I've got is a 5ppi and cost only £7 in a charity shop from the late 1800s, it will last me my lifetime and another few peoples lifetime if looked after and maintained. I rip everything by hand, it really doesn't bother me how long it takes and it improves your skills tenfold once you get the hang of it, sharpening a big toothed ripsaw is also very easy, and you can buy an eclipse saw set for next to nothing. Learn to sharpen and maintain them, it's worth it!

Good advice, thanks you! I'm quite excited to learn the process to be honest. I bought an Eclipse No.77 saw set for £3 on eBay yesterday.

 

[thomashenry]

I do it and I enjoy the exercise. Time isn't really an issue for me. I spend far longer thinking, umming and ahhing, figuring things out, etc, than I do actually taking tool to wood. So in reality, I don't lose any significant time by hand ripping rather than using a bandsaw.

 

[Jacob]

..... I too don't like the idea of my full weight pressing down onto my knees which are pressing down on a piece of wood! :|

Not your full weight, the other foot stays on the floor. It's simply the easiest way.
Surprised at workmate suggestion - I've always found them utterly hopeless for woodwork, just too shaky.

 

[profchris]

I got a lot of good advice on this thread:

saw-sharpening-deep-ripping-technique-t107524.html

Note my epiphany about rake angle on page 3!

 

[Jacob]

Thought I'd get the old thing out and have a go (rip saw that is)

Board over 2 saw horses, knee as hold down:

Move board/saw horse to avoid cutting it in two. You could sit astride and do a two handed hold with the saw vertical - to relieve the monotony and the back ache

Doing OK with bit of 3" pitch pine

4 t.p.i. close up

Very easy and very adaptable with 2 saw horses. Quick and straight cut if set is open enough and wood not moving about. I've done it often this way (when I've had to) with occasional changes of position. Always well supported, wide or narrow, long or short, with direct arm movement / efficient saw stroke.
Splitting a board the other way and you have to use the vice as per the vids above.