How many combination planes should I buy?

[jim_hanna]

How many combination planes should I buy?

Obviously if I were a collector the answer is lots. However for those buying as users then is the answer something like marking gauges, more than one so that you can leave a set-up unchanged during the course of a project.

Reason I ask is that I was browsing through some old copies of Fine Woodworking and found an article in issue 38, January 1983 about the Stanley 55. The author had four of them, used for different tasks.

Be interesting to hear how many combination planes others use during a project?

Jim

An interesting side-note in the article is that the author says the best of currently available combination planes (in 1983) were the Record 405 and Stanley 13-050.
Quote “The combination planes that are on the market (the best two
I've seen are the Record #405 Multi-plane and Stanley's
# 13-050 Combination) do not have the vertically adjustable
fence and thus lose most of the functions that made the #55
so versatile. With the resurgent interest in hand-tool work,
the popularity of the #55 is again growing. Unfortunately,
these planes are usually found at the antique tool dealer's,
where demand from the tool collectors, the nemesis of the
joiner and cabinetmaker, has driven up the price. The planes
seem to be harder to find each year, but the major dealers can
usually come through with one for about $200 to $350, a
price comparable to a new combination plane.”

 

[AndyT]

As the owner of "more than one" combination plane, I would naturally say that you should buy several.

But I don't think I have ever found a need to have different planes to keep the setup. (I do like to do that with marking gauges though.)

For me, the more important differences are to do with dimensions and work holding.

For example, many people enjoy the simplicity of the little Record 043, for small shallow cuts and if your work is within its range, it's a handy plane to use. But if you want to go deeper or wider, then a Record 050 would be a better bet.

There's also the distinction between multiple blade plough planes and true combination planes which can also do beading. You need something capable of beading, but sometimes it's better to use a tool which is just a straightforward plough.

Subtle differences in depth of cut, depth of fence and reach of rods may make workholding easier with one model than another.

That still leaves the question of which tool is best for the job in hand. You could trust the FWW author, but has he ever used a Lewin? A Patsy? A Pemuvar?

If you can find them at an affordable price and you have a place to store them, I think you should do your own research! :wink:

 

[undergroundhunter]

I have 5 combination/plough planes, I only use 2. I use a 043 for drawer bottoms and I have a wooden plough I use for everything else. I have found that there are better dedicated planes out there for doing things like tongue and groove, beading and mouldings.

Its most definitely a slippery slope.

Matt

 

[Wildman]

none use a router, hee hee

 

[Andy Kev.]

There's also the distinction between multiple blade plough planes and true combination planes which can also do beading. You need something capable of beading, but sometimes it's better to use a tool which is just a straightforward plough.

Andy,

does that mean that the Veritas plough plane - which also does T & G and most recently beading - is "officially" a combination plane? If not, I wonder which functions they would have to add to it for it to be regarded as one.

Andy.

 

[undergroundhunter]

There's also the distinction between multiple blade plough planes and true combination planes which can also do beading. You need something capable of beading, but sometimes it's better to use a tool which is just a straightforward plough.

Andy,

does that mean that the Veritas plough plane - which also does T & G and most recently beading - is "officially" a combination plane? If not, I wonder which functions they would have to add to it for it to be regarded as one.

Andy.

I f a Stanley 50 is regarded as a combination plane then I think the veritas can be upgraded from just a plough to a combination plane one you have all the cutters.

Matt

 

[bugbear]

There's also the distinction between multiple blade plough planes and true combination planes which can also do beading. You need something capable of beading, but sometimes it's better to use a tool which is just a straightforward plough.

Andy,

does that mean that the Veritas plough plane - which also does T & G and most recently beading - is "officially" a combination plane? If not, I wonder which functions they would have to add to it for it to be regarded as one.

Andy.

I f a Stanley 50 is regarded as a combination plane then I think the veritas can be upgraded from just a plough to a combination plane one you have all the cutters.

Matt

IIRC the later ("Design Centre") Record planes were sold on this model.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

"How many combination planes should I buy?"

Well, I'd agree that if it's out of interest and curiosity about that specific class of tool, the correct answer would be 'lots'.

However - for the person wanting a kit of good user tools to make stuff, I'm more inclined to think the answer should be 'none at all'. Firstly, I know we talk a lot about mouldings, but in all honesty, how many people actually cut them regularly? Are they an 'essential', or a 'nice visual add-on' (unless you do a lot of antique restoration, of course). Secondly, it's a very complex piece that needs more than one size of groove, in my experience, so you don't very often need several ploughs set up. Thirdly, dedicated tools tend to do a better job quicker than multi-purpose ones - the phrase 'jack of all trades, master of none' applies to multi-planes, I've found; they plough OK, but anything else is a faff. Finally, as Derek Cohen showed us recently, the metal ploughs used for beading give better results with modified cutters - which means some fiddling around modifying them.

Consequently, I'd be more inclined to buy a good plough, a good rebate plane or two, and a good hand router. Then later, if you feel like exploring the world of mouldings, add two or three sizes of beading plane and a couple of pairs of hollows and rounds, which I suspect are much more satisfying to use, and being bedded at higher angles, more likely to leave a good finish. I'm inclined to think one of the reasons for many multi-planes turning up secondhand with most of the cutters unused is because there are better tools for the job - the other being that nobody ever really needs all sizes of bead and moulding cutter supplied!

 

[skipdiver]

I've got a Record 044 with one 1/4" blade which i found in a shed. I've cleaned it up and sharpened it, then gave it a go, which i found very satisfying but to be honest, i just use routers for most stuff. I did however enjoy it enough to start looking for a new set of blades for it and what it's capable of. Don't know if i would buy any more planes though.

 

[Downwindtracker2]

I had bought years ago a Stanley #45 with some cutters. Recently I purchased a complete #45 with some cutters. Again not a complete set of cutters. So I purchased just a complete set of cutters. Now I'm looking at this pile and thinking "My Gawd that's a lot to sharpen! " I passed the first #45 off to my son, he had found a set of cutters but no plane. I would suggest, none.

 

[ED65]

Adam Cherubini's take on this:

If there was ever a tool you can skip its the combination plane. The quintessential Swiss army knife of woodworking tools, these planes do a hundred and one jobs and none of them well. The way the cutters are held is goofy, and the lack of a sole is a significant disadvantage. The fact that you find pristine planes in their original packaging should be the tip off.

From Tools you don’t need if you want to read some more of his semi-controversial opinions on what's not worth spending your readies on.

 

[AndyT]

Ed, you're spoiling the fun, giving him Jim the answer before he's found it out the hard way... :lol:

There certainly is an argument that if you don't want beads, you don't need a combi plane. Also, that if you do want one or two sizes of beads, it's cheap and easy to find wooden bead planes that work really well. If you want big or complex mouldings, a few hollows and rounds will be what you need.

It sort of leaves us with rebates and grooves.

When I was starting out, I cut grooves successfully but very slowly with a Stanley 71 router. For rebates I had a Stanley 75 (really!) When I needed to build some cupboards with grooves for plywood doors, I bought a Record 045C as that was the only choice of plough plane in the shop (1980s, bought new). If you want to make small grooves for plywood doors, any of the common metal ploughs or combis will work, and is less likely to have hard to remedy faults than an abused old wooden one. Indeed, many would have been bought by or four diy-ers in the 40s - 70s, used for one or two projects, then left in the shed, not getting worn out at all.

I should add a caution though, that some of the cheaper tools offered to the diy market were pretty dire. I can talk openly about owning some of them on here, as I have got form already, and don't need to keep up any illusions. For example, this little memento to the decline of English manufacturing from never-famous maker Pemuvar:

Each time it comes out of the box, some more paint falls off the alloy casting. The cutters are as thin and short as they could be. It's uncomfortable and ugly. I only have normal sized hands, but the corners of the cold metal handle cut into my fist:

So don't buy that one. Leave it to someone who feels he has to provide some sort of rest home for old planes whose only plus point would have been that they were a shilling cheaper than a proper tool. :wink:

 

[t8hants]

Good grief another one! My father had one of those, luckily I have lost all the blades, so I will never be tempted to use it.
I only keep it as a sort of memorial to Dad, it should be recycled really.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

If you don't have, or not inclined to build a router table, then a combi plane or two would be handy. An electric plunge router is a fine tool, but it is a pain to groove or mould narrow edges of stock, hence a router table is usually also necessary. However, a plough plane or combi, will groove and mould edges very well, and quietly. Things like beaded drawer slips are a great use for a these tools. One set up for beading and another set as a plough. I find Record 050 is great and can be had for the price of one router cutter with a full set of plough and beading cutters. I have a 044 as well just for ploughing, but the 050 is my favourite and did not cost any more, so I would get two if I was to buy again. Also, the 050 can groove across wide boards without its fence, running it against a batten, the 044 won't.

If you have both plunge and table routers, you won't need any combi planes, except to satisfy your curiosity, which is how I came to get mine. I have a 405 too, oh and a 043.

Mike.

 

[jim_hanna]

Combination planes are like Marmite, enough people use them successfully (Google Jake Darvall and Cornish Workshop for starters) to show that they’re not total lemons, but other people can’t have them at all.

I can see that such hand planes have no relevance for a professional working to time deadlines, a powered router wins every time.
As a hobbyist working mostly in the evening I'm less inclined to use a router because of the noise. Having versatile combination planes can mean that I make progress with a project rather than waiting for a free Saturday afternoon to kit up with mask, goggles, ear defenders and extraction before firing up the table mounted Triton.

Consequently, I'd be more inclined to buy a good plough, a good rebate plane or two, and a good hand router. !

Interesting, at one time I owned (and then sold through this forum) separate small plough and rebate planes as described, a 044 plough, a Stanley 50 (small combination) and a Record 778 rebate. I'm very happy with my replacement combination planes, a Stanley 13-050, a Record 405 and a Stanley 55. With these three I can select the appropriate size and weight of plane to use, and usually find a sharp blade without having to pause to sharpen since the three blade sets (flats and the simpler profiles anyway) are interchangeable.

There certainly is a bigger learning curve with a plane. When I first started woodworking I stuck an ogee bit in a cheap Black and Decker router and was cutting a profile in no time. A 45/405 at that time (let alone a 55) would have been too daunting to even contemplate. Once I was confident about sharpening and had a bit of experience I now find it enjoyable to set up a plane and see a profile gradually emerge.

 

[dickm]

Good grief another one! My father had one of those, luckily I have lost all the blades, so I will never be tempted to use it.
I only keep it as a sort of memorial to Dad, it should be recycled really.

What was it about ?1950s? UK toolmakers that they nearly all used that iffy red paint? Arcoy, Wolf Cub accessories, Coronet........ and probably a host of other more obscure ones.

 

[Vann]

...What was it about ?1950s? UK toolmakers that they nearly all used that iffy red paint? Arcoy, Wolf Cub accessories, Coronet........ and probably a host of other more obscure ones.

Marples :mrgreen:

Also Acorn (post-Chapman), and I think my Linford sheetmetal bodied (PoS) plane.

Cheers, Vann.