How do I install a sash window?

[rogxwhit]

To the op, Dan, feel free to improvise according to your circumstances. Consider though the inside and outside elevations and what proportions of the box are visible.

 

[Jacob]

Not for the present circumstance, just for interest, Jacob in particular, but when the reveal has no returns (stops), at first build the box can be installed from in or out. I doubt that replacement was considered at that stage, but when the time came 100+y later it was less disruptive to plaster & decor to install the replacement from o/s. I've done many off a ladder at ground & first floor. It's only the box you have to shoulder up. That's windows of modest domestic scale.

OK. I've only ever done the inside jobs. Where were you doing your sashes from the outside? They aren't common at all except regionally or in particular Georgian streets as far as I know

 

[rogxwhit]

Mid / North Wales.

 

[niall Y]

Not sashes - always wedged.

That is an interesting interpretation of what I said. We all like to think that we are being clear and precise, when we write things down - but, alas, that isn't always the case.

 

[Doug71]

I would say there is an equal number around me (Yorkshire) of sash windows fitted from the inside and outside. Generally the posher houses fitted from the inside behind the brick reveal, the ones fitted from the outside often have a decorative architrave mitred around on the face.

Regarding fitting I have seen all the above mentioned methods plus 150mm concrete screws straight through the boxes which the weights kept getting hung up on

It sounds like the OP is aiming to make his match others in the street so obviously that will dictate where the window sits in the brickwork.

 

[niall Y]

Looking at the OP''s photo of the existing window, I note that the opening is quite narrow. By the time the box has been taken into account, this might well reduce the area of glass quite a lot, and hence the amount of light entering the room. I can sympathise with the Idea of putting back what was once there. And if there is a neighbours window to copy, then the OP will get exactly what he wants.

In this part of the country ( West Wales ) I have come across a type of sash window that has no boxes, weights, pulleys, or parting bead - a sort of 'poor mans sash window'. The top sash is fixed, but the bottom one is free to move up and down. In one old farm-house I worked on, the customer had replaced the plastic double-glazing with D/G wooden box sashes. These considerably reduced the amount of light in the rooms. I was only later, with hindsight, and observing other period properties, that I realised, it would have been this, less bulky, older style of window, that was once fitted.

 

[Jacob]

Looking at the OP''s photo of the existing window, I note that the opening is quite narrow. By the time the box has been taken into account, this might well reduce the area of glass quite a lot, and hence the amount of light entering the room. I can sympathise with the Idea of putting back what was once there. And if there is a neighbours window to copy, then the OP will get exactly what he wants.

In this part of the country ( West Wales ) I have come across a type of sash window that has no boxes, weights, pulleys, or parting bead - a sort of 'poor mans sash window'. The top sash is fixed, but the bottom one is free to move up and down. In one old farm-house I worked on, the customer had replaced the plastic double-glazing with D/G wooden box sashes. These considerably reduced the amount of light in the rooms. I was only later, with hindsight, and observing other period properties, that I realised, it would have been this, less bulky, older style of window, that was once fitted.

Yes needs a photo from the outside.
I've done funny ones too, as you describe. Some with holes and pegs to keep the sash up, or just a stick.
Also "Yorkshire" sashes, similar but horizontal, one glazed into the frame the other sliding horizontally. They are common in working lofts in mill cottage terraces, just under the eaves, as they give a good light under a low ceiling.

 

[Doug71]

In this part of the country ( West Wales ) I have come across a type of sash window that has no boxes, weights, pulleys, or parting bead - a sort of 'poor mans sash window'. The top sash is fixed, but the bottom one is free to move up and down. In one old farm-house I worked on, the customer had replaced the plastic double-glazing with D/G wooden box sashes. These considerably reduced the amount of light in the rooms. I was only later, with hindsight, and observing other period properties, that I realised, it would have been this, less bulky, older style of window, that was once fitted.

A few years ago I made some similar windows for a customer who was converting some farm cottages to holiday lets in Ireland.

He brought me one of the old windows to copy, it was like a sash window but no boxes which I found a bit confusing, he then produced a small lath about 4" long which he also wanted a few of making, apparently traditionally they used the lath to prop the sash open when they wanted some fresh air! Keep it simple

 

[niall Y]

A few years ago I made some similar windows for a customer who was converting some farm cottages to holiday lets in Ireland.

He brought me one of the old windows to copy, it was like a sash window but no boxes which I found a bit confusing, he then produced a small lath about 4" long which he also wanted a few of making, apparently traditionally they used the lath to prop the sash open when they wanted some fresh air! Keep it simple

That's interesting in the examples I've seen there was no obvious way of propping them open apart from what you suggest
I think the strangest ones I worked on, were a pair in a frame separated by an upright. These had pulleys and rope to the outsides only, and there were a small rollers set into the top edge of the sashes that ran along central upright To stop them jamming I suppose

 

[Jacob]

That's interesting in the examples I've seen there was no obvious way of propping them open apart from what you suggest
I think the strangest ones I worked on, were a pair in a frame separated by an upright. These had pulleys and rope to the outsides only, and there were a small rollers set into the top edge of the sashes that ran along central upright To stop them jamming I suppose

Sounds like a good idea!
The strangest I've worked on were some sets of internal panelled shutters which were hung like sash windows but the window board was a hinged lid over a panelled box which they dropped into - partly below floor level into the cellar. Being thinner than normal sashes meant the weight boxes were thin too and the weights collided unless you opened and closed them in the right sequence.

 

[Housey210]

I've taken out 100s of old sashes and non of them looked like they'd been built in. Too fragile - they are a bit bendy and could easily be put out of square.

Sash windows nearly always go in from the inside.

As I said, inner leaf and linings holding in place. Remove all the linings and window board and the unit so be free

 

[Ollie78]

Whoa! Foam can pressure & distort the often thin backs, even to the point of trapping the weights. Be cautious.

Only if you go absolutely mental with it.

Firstly put a decent back on them, 9mm ply is good, secondly use the low expansion foam that doesn`t expand like crazy the soudal one is good stuff.

Ollie

 

[dpmstevens]

Great discussion. I've been making the box today. It's an exact copy of the original, so will fit in precisely the same position, with the same amount of frame showing internally and externally.

Pretty sure the originals were fitted, then the reveals were plastered up to the frame edges. I'm also fairly sure the frames were skew nailed through the internal lining into wooden noggins top and bottom, as there's the remains of a large nail trapping a piece of wood in precisely the right position to be a piece of the lining.