How can I order wood which won't warp?

[mrodent]

NB I am in the UK. The situation could be significantly different in other countries.

I currently want to build some simple bookcases. I loathe MDF and want to make these from solid wood.

Many years ago I tried to do that: I bought some Parana Pine. This appears to have been about the worst choice I could have made! Yes, it warped horribly and the shelving was a piece of cxxp. So depressed was I by this experience, and apprehensive about warping and twisting of any wood I might buy from timber merchants, that on the two or so occasions since then that I have put up shelves I instead ordered some "shelving assembly system".

So just now I've started looking around to see what the situation is currently (NB I am in South London). But I find it very difficult to know how realistic it is to expect solid wood to have been properly dried and then sawn/milled, making it fit for purpose. And yet there must be 000s of skilled carpenters in the UK who do manage to obtain properly prepared wood.

I look at a couple of sites: timbersource.co.uk looks like a pretty serious outlet. They have various types of wood (not just pine and oak). But then I read that the wood is

kilned prior to shipping. This means that the moisture count will be around 18% - slightly higher than most kiln dried softwood

... surely the idea is to dry the wood (usually by kiln these days, sadly, it seems) and THEN mill and cut it? Can anyone explain this?

Another site with branches local to me is championtimber.com. The following are examples of prices:

• Softwood: 21 x 215 mm (finished) £21.30 per metre inc. VAT
• Meranti/Seraya 20 x 220 mm (finished) £36.95 per metre inc. VAT
• American White Oak: 20 x 220 mm (finished) £55.44 per metre inc. VAT

What are the chances that I won't find these boards twisting horribly in the days and weeks following delivery? At those sorts of prices I don't want to make mistakes!

Cheaper: at buildingmaterials.co.uk I am slightly shocked to see that they are selling 25 mm x 225 mm (nominal) pine for ... £7.14 per metre! Is cheaper likely to mean more twisty/warpy? I have no idea whatsoever.

How can I increase the chances of ordering non-warping, non-twisting wood for my little project?

 

[recipio]

It's unrealistic to expect kiln dried wood to be dead straight. That's why most of us will invest in a planer/ thicknesser and machine it to size. The answer is to use a sheet board like plywood or blockboard if it's going to be painted.
If you prefer hardwoods then South London Hardwoods had a lot of pre planed wood last time I was there.

 

[Spectric]

If building simple bookcases and you don't like MDF do you like the modern or traditional look ? If like me you like things to be sturdy and not just bits of sheet goods joined together then look at doing a panel and frame design. This way you can use ply for your panels which does not need to be 100% bang on square and then redwood for the frame. If you want to use something better but more expensive then look at Sapelle which I use a fair amount of and another idea would be to use tongue and groove. When you get the wood you want to leave it indoors to adjust to it's new enviroment before machining which allows any twisting or bowing to occur before you have used it. I have to keep reminding myself that wood is a natural product unlike steel and you have to work with it's idiosyncrasies.

 

[mrodent]

If building simple bookcases and you don't like MDF do you like the modern or traditional look ? If like me you like things to be sturdy and not just bits of sheet goods joined together then look at doing a panel and frame design. This way you can use ply for your panels which does not need to be 100% bang on square and then redwood for the frame. If you want to use something better but more expensive then look at Sapelle which I use a fair amount of and another idea would be to use tongue and groove. When you get the wood you want to leave it indoors to adjust to it's new enviroment before machining which allows any twisting or bowing to occur before you have used it. I have to keep reminding myself that wood is a natural product unlike steel and you have to work with it's idiosyncrasies.

Thanks. "before machining"... seems both you and recipio are suggesting that even basic use of solid woods is going to require investing in some machine to plane/mill/machine before use.

Yes, sturdy would be the thing, so I'll look into that panel and frame idea.

Obviously I'm not a carpenter... I have the impression that in the past you used to be able to buy solid wood that had been dried (air or kiln) and THEN milled/machined/planed (and cut) before being sold on a retail basis. Sounds like this may not be an option in the UK any more... which is pretty sad if so!

 

[flh801978]

I did notice that my local branch of B&Q ( a large one) has solid oak boards in stock both waney edge and straight edge in 19mm thickness..looked good stuff

 

[flh801978]

I recently made a bookcase for the wife…i bought these 4 boards of 30mm french oak rough sawn 2.8m long x 3 2.3m x 1 and wide enough to get 300 width out of them ( with some sap wood )
Planing made it about 26-27 mm mostly

As an example these 4 boards were £340

 

[mrodent]

I did notice that my local branch of B&Q ( a large one) has solid oak boards in stock both waney edge and straight edge in 19mm thickness..looked good stuff

Well, yes. I can't quite understand the logic of these places (such as timbersource.co.uk mentioned in my original post) which sell both "unplaned" and "planed" timber on a retail basis... if the planed timber is going to be subject to warping as it dries in situ, ... and then require further machining!

I really don't have much interest in getting some terrifying jointer machine ... I just want to buy wood to use straight off. B&Q sell solid oak board online (diy.com). May get in touch and quiz them about the drying question. Oak may be a bit over the top for these first bookcases: I was just thinking of solid pine and probably painting it.

 

[eribaMotters]

If you are going to paint the bookcase then use plywood. and glue/pin a trim on the front edge. This can be decorative, simple or wider than the ply as per your preference. This will be cost effective, should be stable and will be nice to paint.
I generally make painted cabinet/bookcases etc work in mdf, varnished cabinet work in birch [you will probably have to buy poplar]. If shelves are on show I generally use whatever hardwood I can find, if not on show I use varnished birch plywood.

Colin

 

[Agent_zed]

I tend to go to a local builders merchants that also specialise in timber. It tends to be pretty good and they let me look through the stacks for the bits I want. Could you find something similar near you?

I've also recently bought a lot of freshly cut Cedar and I am quite amazed how well it has dried and remained flat as a pancake. I think it tends to be reasonably stable.

 

[Fitzroy]

Any machined timber you order will have been kiln dried and then machined to size, no one would mill to size then kiln dry as the movement would mean it has to be milled again. However, this does not mean that the timber you receive will not move after your receive it.

When most folks mill material we would (starting from dry material, either air dried or kiln dried), saw to rough size, if possible bring into the same location/conditions where the wood will live for a few weeks, mill oversized by several mm all round, bring back into the home location to destress, then mill to final size and then use.

The other point I would make is that most furniture is designed such that timber movement is managed. A board with a light twist can be pulled into place during glue up, the structure of the piece then prevents further warping. A great example of this is breadboard ends on a table top. The ends are designed to prevent the individual wide boards from warping over time. An unsupported shelf will reveal every ounce of movement in the board.

I milled and put these shelves 6 months back. The oak is screwed to the 5mm brackets and I can noticeably see it is trying to pull one bracket off centre as it is twisting. the wood is cut up old sleepers that have lived in the yard for 8 yrs. Air dried but significantly out of equilibrium with my boys bedroom.

Buying planed to size timber I'd only be using it in a design where I can cope with some movement, and I'd want to use it as soon as possible after it arrived. Potentially I'd order it slightly oversize c.1mm giving the option to manage some movement with hand tools.

Fitz.

 

[mrodent]

These are all great insights and suggestions: thanks very much.

Incidentally on the B&Q site (diy.com) it says this about their solid oak boards: "Treatment will be required to prevent warping and bowing. Untreated timber will silver with age and move to create a different character with each piece". I wonder whether therefore some treatment with some product to prevent timber absorbing moisture can help reduce warping/twisting?

 

[fleyh]

Hello @mrodent ,

As others suggested - wood is a living thing which reacts to moisture changes. Different species react differently, some more, some less, but they all do.

To minimise chances of needing to plain your boards after purchase and acclimation you can attempt this:
1. Learn to identify Quarter Sawn timber: What Is Quarter Sawn Wood? | Cut The Wood.
2. Go to your timber merchant in person and select straight Quarter Sawn boards yourselves, do not trust someone else to do that but it should be OK to ask which are quarter sawn (timber merchants will know, box box store assistance won't)
- avoid knots
- stick with hard woods if budget allows
- buy oversized, to allow for slight corrections with hand tools
3. Spend an hour going through the search result of: "prevent wood warping" on youtube
4. When you bring boards home (where they will spend most of the time as a finished item) - try to weight them down to reduce warping while they acclimate and avoid drafts, temperature or any other environmental changes while boards get used to your environment. If you have to work on boards in a different environment (e.g. unheated shed) then do not leave boards there while your project is in progress, bring them back home after every session, but ideally avoid getting boards outside/inside back and forth.
5. If you plan to paint the result (or use any non permeable finish) - make sure to paint board on all sides in the same session. If you paint just one side you may find that uneven moisture ingress/egress caused board to warp overnight.
6. Advanced - consider joinery options which better fix the boards in space.

Keep in mind - even after you have gone through all this trouble - there is still a small chance of warping.

By the way - hand planes have been working for hundreds of years and there is no need to buy a "terrifying jointer machine".

 

[mrodent]

I tend to go to a local builders merchants that also specialise in timber. It tends to be pretty good and they let me look through the stacks for the bits I want. Could you find something similar near you?

I've also recently bought a lot of freshly cut Cedar and I am quite amazed how well it has dried and remained flat as a pancake. I think it tends to be reasonably stable.

Just did some searching on Cedar and it seems as a "close grained" wood it has a good rep for not warping too much.

And to my surprise it is very cheap (e.g. at timbersource.co.uk)... though for some reason they don't appear to do rectangular PAR cuts there. But online searching says it is said to be perfectly suitable for shelving.

 

[mrodent]

By the way - hand planes have been working for hundreds of years and there is no need to buy a "terrifying jointer machine".

Indeed! And thanks for all these recommendations for how to proceed.

 

[sams93]

When I didn't have a planer/thicknesser I would take a few boards for whatever I was doing to a local workshop and give them £5 to plane them square for me.

 

[thetyreman]

I used PAR redwood pine for a bookcase of mine and it worked well very lightweight yet strong, using housing joints, I made sure I made all the joints were cut and fit within one day so that the movement wasn't too severe and always keep it in stick with weights on when not working on it to help prevent any movement.

 

[thetyreman]

also look for independent timber yards, I'd avoid B& pooh, the quality of pine should be higher, never buy sight unseen always check it first.

 

[recipio]

Thanks. "before machining"... seems both you and recipio are suggesting that even basic use of solid woods is going to require investing in some machine to plane/mill/machine before use.

Yes, sturdy would be the thing, so I'll look into that panel and frame idea.

Obviously I'm not a carpenter... I have the impression that in the past you used to be able to buy solid wood that had been dried (air or kiln) and THEN milled/machined/planed (and cut) before being sold on a retail basis. Sounds like this may not be an option in the UK any more... which is pretty sad if so!

It's a question of balancing aesthetics and cost. Personally I would only use prime hardwoods where I wanted an upmarket ' library ' look. There is no end of plastic wrapped pine boards available from the big box stores and that may be your best bet. ? You will still of course need something like a track saw to prepare any wood unless you get lucky with the dimensions.

 

[Adam W.]

Get engineered wood.

 

[mrodent]

I used PAR redwood pine for a bookcase of mine and it worked well very lightweight yet strong, using housing joints, I made sure I made all the joints were cut and fit within one day so that the movement wasn't too severe and always keep it in stick with weights on when not working on it to help prevent any movement.

Can I just clarify what you're saying here?

You got your timbers delivered... and then did you acclimatise them in your home for a few days/weeks? I mean, before you assembled things, cutting your housing joints?

You kept it "in stick" when not working on it: you mean you put weights on the boards as they were lying horizontally on the ground?

As a matter of interest, did you use something like plywood for the backboard (if there was one)?