Home made saw bench.

[Retired]

Hi,

A while ago I sold my Startrite combination woodworking machine and although I have a rebuilt Shopsmith and big DeWalt RAS I wanted a decent dedicated rip saw bench so just for interest designed and built a saw bench to suit my needs. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and am used to this kind of work; I stress engineer and not a "fitter" I was taught by the National Coal Board to use my head and my hands over 50 years ago and the training still is with me.

My Startrite had 3 x 3hp motors and the saw would bog down on thick oak so time to sort this out and to increase the motor power and saw blade diameter. I settled on a 4hp (3KW) 240V single phase motor and a 12" blade diameter. The very heavy duty spindle to be driven by two SPZ belts. New SKF bearings were installed to the spindle. I have a number of Whitehill moulding blocks so why not make a dual purpose machine a saw bench and moulder whilst I'm at it?

I bought new black iron for the framework and not at the time having my metal cutting band-saw rigged up a crude stand allowing my cheap 9" angle grinder to act as a cut off saw which worked very well indeed saving lots of heavy work; my hacksaw and engineers files also saw lots of action. The frame is of welded construction; my 180A oil cooled Pickhill Bantam (Oxford) welder was a joy to use on 2.5mm dia electrodes at around 100A. All welds were fettled as were all sharp edges using a small angle grinder and files.

The motor/spindle mounting was to be rise and fall only as I seldom do angle cuts and the mounting is substantial to avoid flex or twist; the hinge is a pair of Plummer block bearings spaced well apart secured to the legs with set screws; washers and nuts after a lot of careful aligning. The spindle runs at around 4,500rpm which is a compromise between saw and moulder. Trunnions were designed and made as needed allowing the height adjustment by screw and crank giving very fine adjustment; the cutting depth is 4". I made the riving knife which is an absolute must for ripping cuts; I've since made a new rip fence out of 2" steel square box section which is solid once locked by the simple handle arrangement. The top is 4mm steel plate with a Dural throat plate.

A new DOL (direct online) starter was bought and wired using 2.5mm cable to a 32A single phase plug.

This saw bench is to all intents and purposes a prototype it being a one off so having built it from scratch I was very wary at powering it up and putting some timber through it; with the riving knife installed it initially threw a couple of missiles at the workshop doors but expecting this I was well away from line of fire; a second but thicker more suitable riving knife was made and after some adjustment this saw bench is a bit of a beast and certainly not for use by a novice or those of a timid nature.

A pair of handles and wheels allows the saw to be easily moved around and the height of the table top matches the height of the bench allowing the bench to be used as an outfeed extension.

The motor and indeed my welder are prone to tripping the 32A "B" type mcb at power up so I'm not at all happy to have a breaker tripping; I've now bought a new fully compliant 16 way metal clad BG consumer unit which I'm currently getting ready to install; this new CU will be fitted with a pair of 32A "C" type mcb's which I've already bought in readiness.

I enjoyed making this saw bench and given how robust its construction is it will last generations; I might never use it as a moulder already having a few 3hp routers but the option is there for any decent production type runs; the top is designed to accept a suitable throat plate for moulding. Hope this is of interest.

Kind regards, Col.

 

[TFrench]

What a beast! Nice work.

 

[ColeyS1]

That's just unbelievable!!!! What a project ! Does it run as good as it looks ?
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[curtisrider]

Superb, that fence isn't going anywhere!

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks TFrench; yes it sure is a beast and without soft start it bursts into life with gusto; I used an old plate blade for aligning and test then installed a new Trend 12" tipped blade.

Thanks Coley; yes it runs very well indeed but it sure is noisy so ear defenders are a must; it commands respect and anyone poking it with a stick is likely to end up wearing the stick; I doubt it will bog down even on the deepest cut but I've seldom used it since completing it; it's nice to have it though.

Thanks curtisrider; I've since made an even more robust fence out of 2" square box section steel this allows a saddle type push block to be used giving increased operator safety also I've drilled a few holes to allow additions to be added. (tall fence and half fence etc). The rip fence allows 17" wide ripping which will prove very useful; I designed it this way by offsetting from center for the blade; its possible I'll add a side hinged table extension if needed. One thing about making own machinery it can be made to measure. I recently bought the Sealey metal cutting bandsaw shown in the foreground.

The pictures below show the dust extraction which proved very difficult to design and install; the motor is big and heavy but it's also longer than a standard motor so its fan cover sits directly in the way; the bulk of the saw dust is collected by hooking up my Record Power shop vac; with the saw and vac running it can't be ignored.

In order to make the saw bench mobile I looked around to see what I had in stock that could be pressed into service and pulled out a pair of heavy duty rubber wheels which were on castors; I removed the wheels and mounted them on stub axles then I spent ages designing and making the linkages; the wheels are located inboard and linkages connect to a pair of hinged handles as seen in the pictures; the handles when not in use hang out of the way but when the handles are grasped in both hands and lifted the wheels automatically lower lifting the saw bench; the upward motion of the handles is arrested by a pair of simple stops attached to the legs allowing the saw bench to be moved in similar manner to a wheelbarrow; as I say I spent ages designing this function not having seen it done previously but I like to try new ideas out; I used lengths of metal I had to hand; it looks a bit crude but works extremely well indeed.

I've been converting the garage into a full time workshop now the Yeti sleeps on the driveway; last week our tumble drier died so I dragged it into the workshop and used the saw bench to stand the tumble drier on so that I could work in comfort; the thermostat and capacitor needed attention but soon sorted. Please note the new saw bench rip fence sitting on the DeWalt RAS with its saddle type push block; I need a bigger workshop?

Kind regards, Col.

 

[AES]

That really IS a machine and a half! VERY nice looking job.

=D>

AES

 

[bourbon]

nice Job there. Question? why are you trying to cut a washing machine in half? LOL

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks AES; I think it fair to describe it as a one off.

Thanks bourbon; it's actually a tumble drier which died and if I couldn't have managed to fix it I'm sure installing an angle grinder 12" dia steel cutting disc the saw would indeed sort it out once and for all.

Its nice to keep the old skills alive; what a shame the old style apprenticeships have gone; I was taught common sense but these days machinery needs covering with health and safety warnings; when I see machines covered in guards they worry me; aged 15 as an apprentice in the pit I never ever came to any harm working in one of the most hostile environments with open gears that could rip me apart but I had the best engineers looking after me; even at such a young age I was never frightened around machinery in fact life then was exciting with so much to learn. Times sure have changed but I haven't. Whenever I restore or design and make something it always gives me such a buzz; I enjoyed getting my hands dirty making this saw bench. There is so much money around these days there is little incentive to repair or make anything from scratch; if it breaks bin it and why bother making when it can be bought saving time and effort. I confess I'm a dinosaur.

Kind regards, Col.

 

[bourbon]

I for one applaud you for being a dinosaur. Modern production methods don't like them, that's the way of the world. sad but true

 

[ColeyS1]

In my eyes it's kind of unthinkable. I can never get a saw to run as well as I hoped, so I'll just build one that's capable for my needs- whilst I'm at it I may as well make one, that will bite through what's ever thrown at it !!!! :lol:
Edited for language- apologies

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[chaoticbob]

Well, you're my kind of dinosaur Col ! Thanks for posting your build - that's one heck of a machine! Quite inspirational.
Couple of questions - is the table just bog-standard MS cold-rolled plate as can be had from any steel stockholder? I have a plan for a machine, but wondered about how flat steel plate is. Second (slightly off topic) question, you mentioned you'd bought a Sealy bandsaw. From the pic it looks like a generic 6x4 - if so how do you rate it? I'm looking to replace an Axminster job which cuts about 2mm out of square up-down on 38mm bar. No way to fix it without major surgery as far as I can see.
Best, Rob.

 

[AES]

If you're a dinosaur Mr. "retired" then so am I - and PROUD of it! isn't it strange how the basic skills, once learnt don't seem to fade away? Although I must say I've NEVER aspired to a machine like that!

AES

 

[dickm]

As another dinosaur, thanks for the idea about the wheels. Been trying to devise something to enable me to move the Ryoby(Record) router table around. It's got a cast iron top and weighs a heck of a lot. Had been sketching things much more complex than your version, unnecessarily so and they would also have intruded too much into storage space under the table.
Once the kitchen is sorted.................. (long pause), that goes on the todo list.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks bourbon; yes its now a throw away society which is strange when the government are always bleating on about waste? About four years ago our washing machine died; the circuit board had expired; no problem I'll just install a new circuit board; £100 quoted for the board so up to the recycling point with the washing machine and in with a brand new basic Beko washing machine at £190. Waste is encouraged.

Sorry ColeyS1 no offence meant but I don't swear.

Thanks chaoticbob; the hardest part of making this saw bench was in adding the dust extraction and wheels both proved time consuming to sort out; the actual saw bench was very easy for me once I decided the specification. Yes the table top is just standard steel plate this being some 4mm thick I had to hand so worked with it; for precision work this kind of steel plate isn't accurate enough but for something like a saw bench such as this its acceptable because ripping is usually a basic procedure to be followed by planing and finishing; there is a slight crown to the surface so I ensured the crown was uppermost; if accuracy is required then its cast iron and for great accuracy the cast iron is hand scraped but as I say for this application the standard steel plate is good enough. Good question though. I've only recently bought the Sealey bandsaw but on test cuts its accurate and I'm pleased with it. Regarding your own bandsaw not cutting accurately please have a good look at how its put together; either the main band frame can be adjusted or perhaps the vice can be packed out a bit to give accuracy; if the saw is running OK I think it just requires a bit of tweaking?

Thanks AES; who knows what the future holds; you might not consider making one of these saw benches but hopefully now you've seen it perhaps it will give you other ideas of how to improve your workshop.

I love cast iron in machinery dickm; it just can't be beaten but as you rightly say its heavy stuff and if wheels or casters can be attached to a machine then it makes for easier moving of the machine; I added wheels to my heavy Startrite combination woodworking machine making the machine very mobile the wheels were retractable for safety so in use the machine always sat four square on the concrete floor. Your method of designing appears to mirror mine; do all the complicated designs first then finally settle on something simple; if there are 99 ways to do a job wrong then I usually tackle all 99 first; experience doesn't always ensure rapid success but I never ever quit once I start something however hard or long it takes. It does take time and effort adding wheels to machines but this is always worthwhile.

I was taught the old fashioned way with emphasis on high quality work at all levels from sweeping up to working to fine limits on a lathe; in my day if I did anything wrong or cheeked the engineers I was in for it and in the pit it could get rough at times but I trusted these engineers with my life. I openly confess I'm a dinosaur in many ways; I can't accept much as what goes for normal these days; I'm possibly overly polite and although swearing is now accepted even on TV I'll never join in; I want to improve my skills and knowledge not reduce them; absolutely no offence to anyone intended it's the way I am and I can mix in any company; I don't drink alcohol; smoke nor do drugs either; Bron and I lead a very basic but happy lifestyle; I've never been on a plane or been abroad; I bought a £5 mobile phone about six years ago and still don't understand the thing; I don't even know how to accept incoming calls or play with texts; such things simply don't interest me. I hope I'm not preaching but just a little insight into my life; Bron and I haven't had an holiday away from home for the last 40 years; we've invested our hard earned money into our detached bungalow; because of the way we work together I was able to retire from active conflict aged 53 in 2000 so every day since has been Christmas for us. I'm fortunate in having Bron for a wonderful wife who put up with the many bad years but now it's all paid off.

I enjoy forums and watching YouTube videos always on the lookout for new ideas and inspiration. I believe at times I must be barking mad in the unusual projects I tackle but I enjoy myself and end up with something to use. Years ago I installed my own 3 phase 415V supply into our garage this giving full power unlike the expensive static converters; my installation cost at the time just under £120 and a rough estimate was it would run up to 10hp. A vintage radio forum member owned a hugely expensive vintage car and he was having problems with the fuel gauge; he had obtained a replacement fuel gauge but it wasn't suited to the sender unit; the potentiometer on the unit I believe was 100 ohms but he really needed a potentiometer giving 50 ohms; I saw this as a challenge and after quite a bit of work I made a bespoke potentiometer for him just for the fun of it. Another member on a forum requested help from anyone owning a lathe; he needed a couple of metal punches turning to precise measurement each having a very accurate point; he was into making chain mail. Once again I saw this as a nice challenge so I not only made him the standard type of punches I set about and designed and made a mechanical punch. I always try to encourage others to have a go at something totally new leaving their comfort zone; I'm no one special but I had received top notch mechanical engineering training and I find using these skills I can make just about anything I wish to make; what I don't know I research; if something doesn't go as expected I learn from it and try a new approach; I've suffered many set backs but with determination I've never yet been beaten.

Having made the new saw bench I'm now replacing the consumer unit to cope with it; I installed our current 6 way Wylex CU over 25 years ago but now with the saw bench and big welder tripping the mcb why not upgrade the lot? I've bought a 16 way British General CU which is metal clad and fully complaint; I've also bought a pair of "C" type mcb's for the workshop circuit but these just for the welder and saw bench; the rest of the workshop will remain on standard "B" type mcb's. I'm competent to carry out this work but this is one instance I would never recommend a novice to have a go because mains electricity can and will kill; it takes no prisoners.

I've bought a lot of new electrical kit and at the moment am sorting out the bungalow wiring using a socket loop tester and cable tracer etc; I want to bring the circuits up to date before disconnecting the current CU. As usual I'm taking my time to do the best possible job and no expense spared because of health and safety and fire risk. I've rambled on enough but as I say I like to encourage others to leave their comfort zone and try something totally different; there's an whole world out there to explore; this saw bench is my latest project but hopefully a few pictures of previous project will be accepted and be of interest; play safe.

Kind regards, Col.

 

[morfa]

Really interesting thread. A very enjoyable read.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks for your kind comments morfa; much appreciated.

I'd like to expand a bit if I may regarding the home made power supply. When I retired in 2000 I adopted restoring vintage radios as a hobby for our long dreary winters starting from scratch so I had lots to learn. Over the next ten years I became proficient and have had articles published on the subject. The mains radios weren't a problem but the portable battery sets were because many needed batteries of varying voltages.

Once I start something I'm like a dog with a bone and never quit. Not having suitable batteries I decided to make a dedicated power supply involving winding two mains transformers and rectifying to direct current; I designed the transformers and wound to give both high and low voltages. It wasn't difficult to design for six outlets covering high voltage from 60VDC to 150VDC in 10 volt fixed steps via a wafer switch and Zener Diodes onto a power transistor; the low voltages needed to be both in negative and positive to suit the valves so the limit was set at 32VDC but made fully variable. Having sorted the electrics out I needed a nice enclosure so made the cabinet. Now I could power any portable vintage radio. I've since packed in with these restorations and disposed of most of the kit but during the ten years I derived great pleasure from learning and progressed onto restoring a vintage valve TV/Radio Ekco T311 which is well documented and known. This hobby actually cost very little indeed and as time progressed and I became more experienced I gathered lots of kit including oscilloscopes and signal generators etc plus testing equipment for the valves and capacitors; my enthusiasm was unlimited but then I lost interest because I became too good and all the challenges disappeared so now I'm back on wood/metalwork although at the moment I'm upgrading the bungalow electrics.

Out of interest below are a couple of pictures of my old radio workshop with the Ekco TV as work in progress; the chassis had around 15,000V on the rectifier valve only inches away from where I was seated so this was one section not to come into contact with neither was the rear end of the cathode ray tube also seen coupled up; I did a huge amount of work in this small space and enjoyed every minute whilst learning lots of new skills.

What I don't know I'll spend time researching and I firmly believe anyone taking a genuine interest in tackling something new will succeed if they persevere long enough; no one taught me about electrics; veneering or french polishing; I also found out how to wind all manner of tuning coils; chokes and assorted transformers; the number of visitors to our home who tell us they can't do such work really comes down to that they simply aren't interested and won't try.

All this not associated with building the saw bench? Well it really is because everything I do is related and vintage radio/TV restoration are just other skills to explore but I stress when it comes to electrics a great deal of care is required because a silly mistake could be the last mistake ever made but with proper research most things are safe once the dangers are known; YouTube wasn't known when I learnt many of my skills and I spent a great deal of time with my nose stuck into technical books; I hope I'm not boring anyone but this is what I do for relaxation and hobby.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[chaoticbob]

Thanks for your replies to my questions about sheet steel and bandsaws Col. You have confirmed my suspicion that rolled steel plate is not entirely flat - but good enough is good enough!
The Axi bandsaw isn't well designed. There is no provision for up-down alignment and the bottom of the vice is part of the base aluminium casting. I'll surely have another look at the possibility of shimming the frame though.
Thanks again, Rob.

 

[dickm]

Well, you're my kind of dinosaur Col ! Thanks for posting your build - that's one heck of a machine! Quite inspirational.
Second (slightly off topic) question, you mentioned you'd bought a Sealy bandsaw. From the pic it looks like a generic 6x4 - if so how do you rate it? I'm looking to replace an Axminster job which cuts about 2mm out of square up-down on 38mm bar. No way to fix it without major surgery as far as I can see.

Slightly hijacking this thread, but my secondhand Axy bandsaw has the out of square problem too. Other than just remembering to tilt the material being cut so as to allow for the angle, has anyone found a more elegant and reliable solution?

 

[Retired]

Hi,

You're most welcome Rob; using rolled steel plate for a machine table top is fine where great accuracy isn't needed; one thing worth knowing though is that if the plate is positioned crown up then possibly a length of heavy angle iron can be welded across the frame and the top can then be secured to the angle using countersunk set screws and nuts removing most of the crown. On a saw bench though such as this which I designed mostly for ripping then it doesn't matter if the top is slightly crowned; it might make a slight difference in rebating cuts but I think the difference wouldn't be noticeable?

I'm unfamiliar with the cheaper metal cutting band-saws or their construction; such saw are designed right back to basics whereas the more expensive will have suitable adjustment points; I've not yet had time to play around with my Sealey metal cutting bandsaw so am unable to offer much advice; I'm also unfamiliar with its angle cutting where I believe the saw arm pivots but again I've not spent time getting to know my saw.

Please feel free to completely hijack this thread dickm; I always find it most interesting where these threads lead to. Regarding adjustment though on these budget band-saws; if the vice is fixed as described is there any adjustment to be gained by looking at the actual arm mounting pivot assembly; perhaps the hinged unit can be adjusted or shimmed; it takes very little adjustment to make a lot of difference at the actual cut?

As I say I'm unfamiliar with these band-saws but an idea just popped into my head; if both the vice and arm are rigidly fixed by their castings and no adjustment can be found perhaps looking for a solution elsewhere might help? Ideally any metal being cut will sit directly and fully onto the vice bottom but would it be possible to simply grip the metal by its sides; I'm thinking of using a remote leveler for want of a better description; securing a length of metal to the band-saw base either at the outer end of the vice or to the outside of the blade; place a straight piece of metal in the vice and gently lower the blade to make contact with the metal; use an engineers square to determine if the blade is at right angles to the metal; if not readjust the metal until it is square to the blade (vertical) now see where the metal is in relation to the vice; if out of square the metal will touch either side of the vice base; use the metal as a guide and install a leveler as needed; the idea is to simply support the end of the metal which isn't sitting on the vice base; once this is done then all cuts should be perfect because the leveler will remove the unwanted angle of cut; I'm merely thinking out aloud and this is just an idea looking for a simple solution; this idea is a bit of lateral thinking on my behalf; I'll have a look at my band-saw for more inspiration? I'm sure even a budget band-saw can be made to perform well with a bit of thought; I'll try the idea out on my own band-saw just out of curiosity because I enjoy playing with machinery.

Kind regards, Col.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I had a look at my Sealey band-saw yesterday afternoon and took a few images. The vice is a separate item and secured with socket head machine screws so this could be realigned or even shimmed if necessary. The arm mounting too is secured with socket head machine screws again affording adjustment.

I did look at the saw though as if these adjustments weren't available. I roughly tried my idea of using a leveller and I'm sure it would work; as a test I placed a length of bar stock in the vice and looked around for a bit of suitable steel to make a simple leveller from; on my saw a short length of angle iron would be a simple solution; the bar shown could be accurately set to the blade the bar being gripped in the vice; if the bar then touches the opposite end of the vice base to the blade then the angle iron would need adding just outboard of the blade and cut to the height required as measured from the bottom of the bar to the stand; if the bar touched the vice end nearest the blade then the angle would need adding to the opposite end just clear of the vice; this would ensure perfectly accurate cuts in a vertical position; as I say though its just an idea and for short material it wouldn't work but for lengths longer than about 6" it should be fine; shorter lengths would need setting using a square for each cut; I'm too busy to concentrate on the band-saw though because I'm doing a lot of electrical work including installing a new consumer unit but I hope my idea is of some use? The angle iron in the pictures is just an offcut but describes better than text the idea. Once the height is determined then the angle iron can be secured with a set screw and nut to the saw base.

Kind regards, Col.