Holdfast Group Buy - May have found a UK Blacksmith

[Richard T]

I did send you an email earlier, or at least I thought I did ... I'll try to PM you (private message)

Now you have three posts that might work now - not sure though.

 

[condeesteso]

sorry very slow in on this, it's a really long thread but - why are the legs on holdfasts so long? If a really thick bench-top is 5", isn't 6" enough. Just wondering as I build my next bench, and plan to use the underspace for storage cupboards maybe. I'm at a loss as to why they stick below the underside so far?

 

[studders]

I 'think' it has to do with the holdfast being under tension, if it was too short it would just wedge itself in place rather than 'spring' tight/loose.
I may of course be barking up completely the wrong lampost.

 

[condeesteso]

Hi Studders - I am puzzled by it - so long as the bottom of the leg (it'll have a tech name, I don't know what, as usual) is below the underside, surely any more metal below that is of no significance? But, they are made that way and have been for ever... bugbear would know this one

 

[studders]

You got me thinking now (rarely a good idea ) but.... I think I'm wrong... the 'boing' (techy term) comes from the arm above the table, I think; my head hurts now.

 

[studders]

Ah.... hang fire, I think the bulb may have just gone on. It's to accommodate varying thicknesses isn't it? If the iron were short you'd only be able to clamp thin stock.

 

[Richard T]

Douglas .... the holdfasts are forged to grip in a hole of 2 -1/4" depth. I spend quite a lot of time testing each one to fit this criteria as every one's bench is different. They are usually 4 or 5 inches but sometimes are less than 2" MDF .... All I can advise is to add on or take away the depth of that 3/4 inch hole.

 

[Richard T]

... but that's not what you were asking is it ... they are as long as they are because it is about the optimum length at which they still work. Holding six drawer sides on top of a block to chisel out dovetails (a la Frank Klausz) is quite a tall thing and requires about the length of leg I make.
Several people have asked me for much longer ones and I have had to explain that this is about the limit of usefulness.
I've seen lots of benches with a board vertically down the front side with 3/4" holes zig zaged all the way down. I'd love to know if this ever had an official title ..

 

[SurreyHills]

Richard

The board you refer to is known as a deadman vice and it can also be made as a sliding type. See this site for a more detailed description - http://carlswoodworking.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/the-sliding-deadman/

 

[sqwheezle]

Everyone

To see how holdfasts, the deadman and crochet are used you could start by going here http://www.popularwoodworking.com/video ... bench_tour then looking up Chris Schwarz and his book. Fascinating and beautiful stuff.

 

[Richard T]

Thanks for those folks. Deadman vice eh?

Here's Roy Underhill having the same idea:

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2700/2705.html

and

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/2700/2706.html

 

[condeesteso]

Well done Studders... how very slow was I in overlooking the actual stock... good grief!!
Damn, Richard - not so much about raising a Landie, but the Roy U video... First, your land Rover wagon vise / vice - that is why they are called wagon vices I guess. It'll be good, do all we need it to, it's just that I need really shiny things.
Now then. BENCHES. Elsewhere here I've been examining the addiction to hand planes. Well, actually, I have a problem with benches. While the current is on hold pending a tail, the next is half-way designed.
Fell upon some very old oak beams a few weeks ago... so a 6" thick, 6' long, leg vice, and leg tail. Very plain, but dovetailed legs to top. (See Roy U's video Richard pointed out).
Now, that's what I need...

 

[Richard T]

Yup. Ain't Roy Underhill just a piece of fantastic? Watch 'em all.

 

[condeesteso]

Richard - they arrived this morning. brilliant work, seriously. Very nicely finished, good length etc. they do fit my current bench so go straight into service. I may be the last here to pick up on this but a pair shipped for about £25 is truly excellent. The Veritas screw-down will now gather dust. Given the quality of these, we need to see your Landie tail-vice next.
(btw, anyone notice Gramercy speak of their 'patented holdfast'... how you do that then??!)

p.s. the Veritas is slow to use and has little 'grunt'... but it's quite pretty. These holdfasts are very fast to use, and have more than enough grunt to grip very well. A simple, time-proven, winning design... and handsome rather than pretty.

 

[AndyT]

(btw, anyone notice Gramercy speak of their 'patented holdfast'... how you do that then??!)

The Gramercy patent, IIRC, is for their manufacturing process - cold forming the holdfasts by bending suitable wire - not for the finished object.

Richard does them the proper, old-fashioned, devilish hot way - with Mrs Doyle pumping the bellows!

 

[Richard T]

Yup. Tom went into the mysteries of that patent process pages and pages (and one forum) ago.

Glad you can use them straight away Douglas.

Alas, Andy, there is no room for Mrs. Doyle to pump the bellows but she has taken photos of me pumping the bellows -

Now you've got me thinking ... I could put the handle on the other side ....

 

[condeesteso]

it's a bad thing to turn up to a party so late (this thread) - but at least I got to taste the wine And is that an open plan forge you have there, Richard?

 

[Richard T]

Hi Douglas - it was a small stilt barn I built about 12 years ago until I built the forge there and built the aisle over it. The forge takes up nearly one half of the aisle and the bellows nearly all the other.
It is a Great Bellows with the two chambers; I wish I were making it now. It would be a great wip.

 

[condeesteso]

Richard's holdfasts in action. Knocked up a mallet specially to work with them. The standard beech ones were a bit bulky and lacked mass, so this ash version came about. It looks a bit puny, but has lead in it, so weighs in around 1.6Kg. Not that you whack the holdfasts - 2 taps beats one big hit, but some mass helps. Leather faces, whipping twine to hold the edges (done the same as rope whipping the good sailor way).
Turned on Jim's old Coronet, sanded up with Jim's abranet, bog oak wedge from Jim. OK, it's half mine.
These hand forged holdfasts are really outstanding bench accessories (essentials actually). Stuff the variants with screws etc. They only came about because the true blacksmith became a bit scarce. The Gramercy ones are made cold because mass production requires that. Stuff 'em all. These are quite like wheels - so simple, so totally effective.

 

[SilverDinky]

If there are any more holdfasts available I will take 4 please. (sorry, too new here to PM you direct Richard).