High cost of precision engineering

[Spectric]

This article about the manufacture of pistons for formula one engines really shows precision engineering without limits, that DMG MORI DMU 50 CNC machine they use is fascinating to see.



Then when you think that a single piston is around £50,000 and you need at least six then some eyewatering sums of money for what is essentially a consumable component.

If you now think of all the other components which will be as equally expensive then is this an area that will become all electric racing at some point because of cost. I am sure you could get more races out of an electric motor than a very complex petrol engine simply on the basis that there is so little friction or wear surfaces in the motor compared to a high reving piston moving up & down a cylinder.

Downside is that we would lose more skilled jobs, albeit rather niche but maybe move the emphasis from powertrain technology to driver skills. I am sure what this would achieve is advancement in battery technology, there would be a race for lightweight high density batteries but maybe without the range needed for the road.

 

[Terrytpot]

Don’t necessarily agree on a few points:
A) The loss of specialist jobs? Pretty sure that the company selling pistons at that price aren’t churning out that many of them and the price reflects the cost of the equipment and the set up costs for such small batches. You don’t survive long by doing a few quick jobs with very expensive equipment if you haven’t got lots of other work to occupy your capacity. There’s also the fact that more jobs could well be created within the ev research and design industries along with the construction associated.

B) Whilst lighter is relevant I think range is the more immediate issue for racing (unless you embrace the idea of swapping a battery mid race as being akin to a refuel) as with races that average a distance of 190 miles (ignoring Monaco) those electrons will soon get depleted driving a car like you stole it.

Can’t help but agree with your other points though, electric seems the logical direction as the existing cars are rapidly becoming irrelevant. Time was you could aspire to driving something that was designed and bred on the track or that your run of the mill motor would employ technology that came from there.
I think the world of F1 has perhaps reached the point now where those transitions of tech from the track seeping through to cars on the road is probably not as open to fiscal opportunities as that of electric vehicles.

 

[Spectric]

Time was you could aspire to driving something that was designed and bred on the track or that your run of the mill motor would employ technology that came from there.

I think all technologies have a finite life, with the ICE it began in a very crude form in as much as it once used a naked flame rather than a spark and has progressed to where we are today with better materials and complex electronic control but at the end of the day you still have the same basic engine with pistons and a crankshaft just like at the begining so what more can be done to progress the ICE ?

The electric motor is just angular movement created by a revolving magnetic field, the ICE has to convert the linear motion of it's pistons being pushed down a cylinder by the expansion of burning fuel into this angular movement which is at the heart of all ICE's and there is nothing you can do to change this so you have to reach an endpoint where further advancement cost ever more for less progress.

I would say that using an ICE to power a generator to drive the wheels is a good next step, ie hybrid but although the motor is well evolved the power source has a way to go until perfection.

 

[Ollie78]

Those dmg machines are amazing, there is a specialist company near me that has a bunch of them, I think they do composite stuff as they have a load of autoclaves as well. I always want to go in and have a nose around when I walk past and the door is open.

The great thing with F1 is it lets engineers go wild within a rule set with little other restrictions, there is a freedom and purity to that I think.
Everytime they change a rule designed to restrict or slow them down the engineers figure a way to go just as fast.

I think there is still room for internal combustion, the efficiency of the newest engines is incredible. I think the issue is the fuel. JCB and others are developing hydrogen combustion engines for heavy plant with some some success.
The elctric motor is an amazing thing too, especially some of the new compact ones like the Koenegsegg one, incredible power from tiny size. The trouble is the energy density of current batteries is not that good compared to a tank of petrol, there will likely be breakthroughs pretty soon.

I look at it a bit like watches, a £10 casio tells perfect time but there is something amazing about a high end mechanical watch like a Gruebel Forsey or A Lange and Sohne. The casio is the electric runabout but the others are like the high end unrestricted F1 where only perfection will do.
There is room for both and many levels in between.

I don`t think we need to worry about losing the skilled jobs, people that good will find something to do.