Hi - Fi buffs ?

[Blister]

None of the kit you list plays Itunes data - how are you doing that?

BugBear

The only way I could see was to run a cable from my I mac headphone socket into the Aux port on the amp

You want to invest in a [urlhttp://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=4588&customer_id=PAA1775057912080TTTUEKPHYLORKQNI]USB/DAC converter[/url]. This takes the digital iTunes signal out of your Mac and converts it to analogue to plug into your amp.
Headphone sockets are notoriously poor quality audio-wise...

Hi Pete the link does not work ?

 

[gus3049]

My current system is alas all modern

I have the following

Technics SL-1200 MK2 turntable fitted with a Audio technica AT120E cartridge
A set of arm scales shipped in from the USA
Marantz CD6002 CD player
Marantz PM6002 integrated amp
Marantz ST7001 DAB/FM/AM tuner

A pair of Tannoy Precision 6p studio monitors

My problem is , it all sounds somewhat muted / flat , not sure if its I tunes ?

I have some interesting vinyl , Zeppelin , the Who , Cream , ZZ top albums that I love listening too :mrgreen:
I am sure the vinyl sounds better than I tunes

So would like to better my listening pleasure :lol: 8)

Sounds a perfectly reasonable system to me. The Stereo 20 would be much better but... as said, a better source will improve things. Audio from the Mac is OK for me, I think it depends on which model you have, Apple seem to think that an iPod sounds good - I thought I was deaf. The record player is a good one so you should try and match all the other bits to that. I don't know much about the digital side of getting audio out so the experts will no doubt advise.

I have iTunes playing via an old Rogers Ravensbrook into Sennheisers and it sounds perfectly good for casual listening. For serious stuff its vinyl.

 

[Blister]

Audio from the Mac is OK for me, I think it depends on which model you have,

I have a 24" Imac :mrgreen:

and a I pod nano , I phone 4 , I pad 2 all = I mad :mrgreen:

running OS X

 

[Blister]

I was looking at these amps

http://www.hifiandaudio.com/se_amplist.htm

any opinions on them ?

 

[cambournepete]

Hi Pete the link does not work ?

Sorry - it does now.

 

[cambournepete]

I was looking at these amps

http://www.hifiandaudio.com/se_amplist.htm

any opinions on them ?

I do't know anything about the amps, but you'd want to check they can drive your speakers properly and if they can't you'd need new speakers as well...

 

[Racers]

Hi, Blister

Improve your front end first, you can’t make fine furniture from pallet wood.

You do realise those amps don't have phono inputs so your turntable won't work.

Use a docking station for your iPhone it will sound much better than the headphone socket.
That’s what I found when I put together a system for my mates garage using his iPhone.

You need to find a good HiFi shop that will lend you things to try at home and listen for a while.

Pete

 

[gus3049]

Hi Allen,

As it seems to be an iTunes versus other souces problem, can I suggest that you visit this forum?http://theartofsound.net/forum/index.php

They have a whole section on digital/computer audio and whilst I am not suggesting that the 'experts' here are not as good, they do seem to have many people there who REALLY know what they are talking about. Getting a good quality DAC fed from the Mac and into your amp may be a solution to your problem, certainly cheaper than the valve amp. This assumes you are happy with the sound from the other sources of course.

Whilst there, visit this thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11349 to see what DIY is really all about. Its a friend of one of the dutch guys I know out here. He only works four days a week, all the rest of his time is spent with his hi-fi. There are 24 pages but well worth wading through.

I wonder where the hi-fi ends and the music starts! It seems it is possible to separate the two in spite of one supposedly being the path to the other.

 

[gus3049]

You certainly are - do you want another pair - once read an article about stacked pairs but they were hidden behind acoustic curtains?

Rod

Well Rod,

If you need them taken off your hands...........

........we have a few things that need doing out here before I consider spending on the hi-fi. A new roof would be good for a start.

'course, if you want to pop them in the car and visit, I could look after them for you. The spare room needs a ceiling but the bed is good - genuine antique by Steadman Instrument Repairs.(all the bits are antique, they just didn't start out together!!)

 

[gus3049]

I was looking at these amps

http://www.hifiandaudio.com/se_amplist.htm

any opinions on them ?

Not without listening to them!! If you want to spend that sort of money, I still say go to Classique Sounds in Leicester and get a refurbished Stereo 20 and a suitable pre-amp. This is after you sort the iMac side of things of course.

 

[cambournepete]

Use a docking station for your iPhone it will sound much better than the headphone socket.

Or even use a dedicated cable such as this to eliminate the docking station...

 

[nev]

If you want a bit more sparkle , life , top end, call it what you may have a listen to a Naim amp or possibly Rega or Roksan, (rega would be my pref) and /or some B&W loudspeakers. The Marantz front end is probably one of the least bright of the japanese major brands, but i wouldnt call it flat so amp or speakers would be first on the list. IMHapuO.

 

[Racers]

Use a docking station for your iPhone it will sound much better than the headphone socket.

Or even use a dedicated cable such as this to eliminate the docking station...

Cough choke £65 they know how to charge!


Pete

 

[Racers]

If you want a bit more sparkle , life , top end, call it what you may have a listen to a Naim amp or possibly Rega or Roksan, (rega would be my pref) and /or some B&W loudspeakers. The Marantz front end is probably one of the least bright of the japanese major brands, but i wouldnt call it flat so amp or speakers would be first on the list. IMHapuO.

You need to look at the signal going, in if thats where its lacking you will never get it back.

I could add Densen amps and CD players, Dynovector amps, Shahinian speakers, Mogami cables

But then we are talking thousands.

Pete

 

[nev]

You need to look at the signal going, in if thats where its lacking you will never get it back.

Pete

very true, but if three different sources (vinyl, cd, itunes) produce a similar uninspiring sound there's probably something else in the equation letting it down.

And blister did say no lotto win ...
.. if money was no object..

The 'best' I've ever heard and if the lotto win came in .... cannot remember the models but , audionet cd player and amp £2500 each, Wilson Benesch speakers £2500. sublime BUT ONLY when using a nordost valhalla interconnect! at another £2500 :shock:
(Waits for shouts of derision ) but without it , the sound was only fabulous. with it... =P~ the hairs on the back of neck not only stood up, they applauded too :wink:

 

[Racers]

Hi, Nev

Ipod by the headphone lead poor Cd and turntable would also explain it as well, He need to have a listen to some stuff and go from there.

I heard a £70,000 system once, all Naim at their factory, I wouldn't have paid that much for it.

My speakers are over £3000 now, I didn't pay that much for them.

Pete

 

[Racers]

Hi, Blister

If you are around Nottingham come and have a listen to my system.


Pete

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm with Pete on this.

In order of greatest effect on sound quality it's roughly this:

1. Speakers
2. Room acoustic / environmental noise
3. CD/other sound source
4. preamp
5. interconnecting cables (see below!)
6. speaker cable
7. power amp
8. Martians in outer space
9. earthquakes and tsunamis in the Pacific
10. small wars in Central America
11. Tony Blair
12. mains cable
13. little weights you put on your speaker cables and/or mini pylons to lift them off the floor.

When I say CD/other sound source, I'm including the DAC and the encoding scheme (MP3 is dreadful!).

Seriously, although people will tell you otherwise, my dad, who designed audio componentry commercially for forty years, insists power amps are amongst the easiest things to design and make (as long as you do it properly!) and one of the least likely things to affect the sound noticeably (if properly made and not faulty). I have one of his designs, and it's brilliant, although it's not my main system.

Valve amps hum, get hot, distort, give you nasty belts, the pots crackle (because they get hot), and are generally a fragile PITA, to no significant advantage. But they do photograph well and give magazines endless amounts of bull***t to talk about. I don't miss them.

Interconnecting cables: generally their effect is negligible (the expensive cables amount to snake oil in any properly engineered system), with one exception: long runs of REALLY cheap cable will 'deaden' the sound through capacitance effects. For example, running a really cheap cable round the room to get from a PC to the preamp is a poor idea.

Pete's comment about headphone outputs, especially on mobile devices, is important: they are designed for really low impedance loads these days (because they run on low internal voltages), and don't work well into the 10k load of a typical preamp. Expect cracking and distortion, and possibly light bass - general naffness. Using a purpose built DAC gets round this.

Hope that helps. Mind the Martians and don't get lured into buying anything made of oxygen-free crystal-aligned anything - it'll give your wallet serious headaches and you won't hear any difference.

Cheers,

E. (ex- audio professional).

 

[cambournepete]

...power amps are amongst the easiest things to design and make (as long as you do it properly!) and one of the least likely things to affect the sound noticeably (if properly made and not faulty)...

Therein lies the rub, most are designed down to a price and therefore not "done properly". :?

(ex- audio professional).

The benefit I have as a software engineer who just about knows which end of the soldering iron to hold (it's not the hot end btw ) is that I don't know that mains cable, interconnects and speaker leads can't make much difference, therefore I can hear (and see on my TV) a difference, as can SWMBO.

I reckon it's worth spending a bit to get not-bottom-of-the-range cables. The last ones I bought (HDMI and mains) were from Mark Grant and were his cheaper ones, but much better (IMHO) than the standard cheap cables supplied with TV and Sky box. I've also bought low end Kimber cables from Russ Andrews, which sound good to me.

I do generally agree about the equipment/room order you put though

 

[gus3049]

I'm with Pete on this.

In order of greatest effect on sound quality it's roughly this:

1. Speakers
2. Room acoustic / environmental noise
3. CD/other sound source
4. preamp
5. interconnecting cables (see below!)
6. speaker cable
7. power amp
8. Martians in outer space
9. earthquakes and tsunamis in the Pacific
10. small wars in Central America
11. Tony Blair
12. mains cable
13. little weights you put on your speaker cables and/or mini pylons to lift them off the floor.

When I say CD/other sound source, I'm including the DAC and the encoding scheme (MP3 is dreadful!).

Seriously, although people will tell you otherwise, my dad, who designed audio componentry commercially for forty years, insists power amps are amongst the easiest things to design and make (as long as you do it properly!) and one of the least likely things to affect the sound noticeably (if properly made and not faulty). I have one of his designs, and it's brilliant, although it's not my main system.

Valve amps hum, get hot, distort, give you nasty belts, the pots crackle (because they get hot), and are generally a fragile PITA, to no significant advantage. But they do photograph well and give magazines endless amounts of bull***t to talk about. I don't miss them.

Interconnecting cables: generally their effect is negligible (the expensive cables amount to snake oil in any properly engineered system), with one exception: long runs of REALLY cheap cable will 'deaden' the sound through capacitance effects. For example, running a really cheap cable round the room to get from a PC to the preamp is a poor idea.

Pete's comment about headphone outputs, especially on mobile devices, is important: they are designed for really low impedance loads these days (because they run on low internal voltages), and don't work well into the 10k load of a typical preamp. Expect cracking and distortion, and possibly light bass - general naffness. Using a purpose built DAC gets round this.

Hope that helps. Mind the Martians and don't get lured into buying anything made of oxygen-free crystal-aligned anything - it'll give your wallet serious headaches and you won't hear any difference.

Cheers,

E. (ex- audio professional).

Its easy to quote professionals. My brother is a professional electronics man. he designed the guidance system for the blue streak rocket (yes yes I know it failed but that was the German bit) His list AND MINE would be entirely different from yours - he has his own opinions you see which are affected by his own ears and experience. You cannot state your opinions as fact.

Speakers would come well below source and amplifier, they can only try and reproduce what came before. Whether you accept it or not this is just one man's opinion and the result of listening with one set of ears. There is a vast difference between what may measure well and sound well - to my ears at least and to many others obviously.

My valve amp does not distort or get particularly hot or crackle and has never given me a belt - it is after all, properly designed and also sounds superb, better than all my tranny amps.

Allen has to use his own ears to decide what is the best solution after reading all the alternatives.

I agree with the items on the list after the amp except for Tony Blair, he after all, is the most important thing in the whole universe after me.