Helping at a repair cafe

[spanner48]

Oh dear, two degrees, but blissfully unaware of the responsibilities and liabilities. I too have a degree in Electrical and electronics as well as being a Chartered Engineer. I also was involved with the last IEEE regs (not the latest) and ran at one stage a company that designed and manufactured electrical test instruments. I can play top trumps too

There isn’t a contract that exists that allows the customer irrespective of whether the work paid for or free to sign away the fact that someone may create a lethal or dangerous bit of kit. If you fix it, you are personally liable for your errors as well as the organisation that organised for you to do it.

Knock yourself out, if you feel like playing Russian Roulette. But from what you say about how these cafes operate they should be shut down immediately, extremely ridiculous way of operating.

1: Not "two degrees": five. Cambridge: 2 Reading: 1 Cranfield 1: INSEAD 1 And yours?

2: "But from what you say about how these cafes operate they should be shut down immediately" ??

And what powers do you propose should be used to "shut down" a voluntary meeting of people on private ground? Maybe ask Stalin? You've clearly never been to one; so perhaps look at the Dunning-Kruger function, and observe where on it you are . . . . .

3: "…extremely ridiculous way of operating." ??

So much for altruism and goodwill . . . . ."Greed is good!"

 

[guineafowl21]

I should know better than to get involved in this somewhat crazy thread, but isn't it possible that the demise of the local repair business has led to the rise in volunteer staffed repair cafes, rather than the latter forcing the former out of business?

This strikes a chord with me.

I have a shop and tools, and it’s rapidly turned into a mini ‘repair cafe’. TVs, lawnmowers, coffee tables, you name it.

Pretty much everyone who brings me broken stuff says the same thing: there’s no-one doing these small repairs any more.

With regard to chainsaws/lawn mowers, there is a garden machinery place in town, but they charge so much per hour it renders almost everything small ‘beyond economical repair’.

So, from my end of the world, repair cafes are filling a niche, rather than pushing out businesses.

 

[spanner48]

Have you read what you’ve posted? The exceptions which it states as example for WHERE H&S is applicable is exactly what a Repair Cafe does.

 

[paulrbarnard]

The question was asking for organisations that have competed against free software creators.

Apple, Microsoft, Adobe

 

[spanner48]

HSE exception: "in control of non-domestic premises, such as a village or community hall"

Rather few Repair Cafes are "in control of non-domestic premises" most just rent a room, or an outside area, for 3 hours, once a month or so. They rent it from the owner, who does "have control", and who imposes whatever 'Elf-n-Safety rules they want to; or which their own insurance requires of them

 

[spanner48]

Saving from landfill is the objective of the Repair Cafe. We have fixed many vacuum's, toasters, coffee machines, etc, even a robotic vacuum! The list goes on and on. I must say we have a very talented bunch of guys. I replaced a switch in an angle grinder and the guy gave us £20.00 and a bottle of wine. It saved him the cost of a new one and the old one didn't go to landfill. Regarding the Men's Shed, we have "overhauled" several cast iron arm benches. One we sold for £240.00! Again, another item that didn't go to landfill. Not the primary objective of the Men's Shed but but we had fun doing it and someone is enjoying it.

Mike: do you want another repairer at Wokingham? I live nearby . . .

 

[JSW]

When I first worked on a bike [actually, a trike] in May* there WAS no "training". It was assumed that anyone could do the simple things involved in bike maintenance. It's still broadly true today.

* that's May 1953

 

[paulrbarnard]

View attachment 181547

I had one exactly like that though mine was a 1964 model.

 

[Richard_C]

Repair cafes fill many functions.

Avoiding landfill might be one, but fixing things with intrinsic value rather than cash value may be another.

I recently refurbished a Stanley #4 plane, nothing special and I could easily afford a new one. But I remember my father saving up tp buy it back in early 60s, so its not a plane, its his plane. Nice to have around in the workshop. Not long ago I refurbished my old AR speakers, new capacitors, some soldering of dry joints, tidied up the cabinets, re-foamed the cones ( the flexible bit twixt cone and chassis). Why? I could have bought new speakers that were technically much better but they have been in various living rooms over the last 45 years and are part of the household.

I guess a lot of people bring things that they want to have fixed rather than they need to have fixed. Plus the ethos is to demonstrate fixability in the hope and expectation that people will have a go themselves. Plus plus, the name 'repair cafe' suggests a social aspect. When I was younger and less patient I would get irritated with people at the supermatket checkout who chatted to the cashier. Now I realise that for some it may be the only face to face interaction they have all day, maybe all weekend. So a repair cafe might fill a social need as well: bring something in and explain why its important to them, even if it can't be mended they have had their moment or three of contact, so too the volunteers. So its not just about things, its about people.

I take the points about risk and liability, but responsible volunteers won't tackle things they know are risky and many repairs are simple - its just that people are afraid to try.

"Big retail/big brand" has no interest in repair, exec bonus is based on how many units you sell not how many you fix. There is a perverse incentive to make things uneconomic to repair - that's one reason why parts prices are so high. Sell 100,000 new valves for inside washing machines won't get the CEO his bonus, and won't get the market analysts excited enough to drive the share price up - selling 100,000 new machines might. So make the valves expensive aand make sure there are long wait times for supply.

 

[Jacob]

Have you ever actually BEEN to a Repair Cafe? It's typically around half-a-dozen old farts [and fartettes] sitting at tables in a hired room or outdoors for 2 or 3 hours; with a lady to do the teas/coffees/biscuits.

..... . .

Usually once a month. Ours is first Saturday I think.

 

[Jacob]

....

2: "But from what you say about how these cafes operate they should be shut down immediately" ??

And what powers do you propose should be used to "shut down" a voluntary meeting of people on private ground? Maybe ask Stalin? You've clearly never been to one; so perhaps look at the Dunning-Kruger function, and observe where on it you are . . . . .

..... . .

Interesting. Could led to secret underground repair cafes - the reverse of Luddites. People meeting in dark fields clutching broken toasters, others tooled up to mend them.
One way of fighting capitalism - mend things instead of buying new ones?

 

[Bosshogg16]

The point of "Economically Repaired" is probably the biggest factor. I run a men's shed, and help run the local repair café, most of what comes into us, would be considered unrepairable, i.e., to little work to price to an advantage, or to complicated to most. But it's extremely rewarding, bringing back to life something like this.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I take the points about risk and liability, but responsible volunteers won't tackle things they know are risky and many repairs are simple - its just that people are afraid to try.

The essence of good DIY - knowing when to to stop.

 

[pe2dave]

Can you give 2-3 of your best examples?

*All* the software on my computer. I've been running it for about 20 years on Open software.
Is that enough?
And there are millions more doing just the same.

 

[imageel]

The essence of good DIY - knowing when to to stop.

Totally agree - we get a lot of folk dropping stuff off at our local mens shed and it's kinda random who may be there when items are dropped off to assess them etc. Quite a few are even for us are beyond economic repair and subsequently rejected.
I do agree with the idea however of re-cycling as much as is possible and as others have mentioned saving folks on huge repair bills or replacement items, I myself fixed my lawnmower recently - classic E10 fuel issue blocking the idle jet and fixed by half an hours work dismantling the carb and a £6 can of carb spray cleaner - when I looked back I remember whilst working and this 1st occurred I didn't have time to do it myself so took it to a local mower center who charged me just under half the original new price of the Honda Izy mower...!

 

[jcassidy]

Wow this thread took a turn.

Anyway, under Irish law there is a general exemption from public liability for "voluntary work that is authorised by a volunteer organisation and does so without the expectation of payment [...] shall not be personally liable in negligence for any act done when carrying out voluntary work", with the usual exception for gross negligence. So changing the fuse in lamp plug is probably OK, but probably not wholesale re-wiring... unless you're an electrician.

This entire section probably exists otherwise GAA (national voluntary sports organisation) would be wiped out!

Duty of Care

Given how close Ireland the UK are, legally speaking, I'd be surprised if there is not something similar in English law, be it written legislation or common-law.

Regardless, I imagine there would be no end of simple repairs the OP can help with.

 

[Fergie 307]

I had one exactly like that though mine was a 1964 model.

Me too, Triang with red "spokes" painted on the front wheel

 

[Fergie 307]

Interesting. Could led to secret underground repair cafes - the reverse of Luddites. People meeting in dark fields clutching broken toasters, others tooled up to mend them.
One way of fighting capitalism - mend things instead of buying new ones?

Oh Jacob you slay me. Can't get the image out of my head now of the repair man on one side of the field flashing a signal to attract the clandestine folk with their broken toasters, brilliant

 

[yngndrw]

Repair a lawnmower and the lawnmower business will be bankrupt. Every item that's repaired could be repaired by a business that exists(for now).

Businesses are there to provide convenience and economy of scale. (Tools that are unreasonable to expect somebody at home to have, for example, a 2 post vehicle lift) Basic repair skills should not be gated behind training schemes (Which are there to make money for the scheme operator, f-gas in the low-GWP refrigerant world is a great example) or somebody's capitalistic dreams. (I.e. Just because someone wants to make a profit out of a skill, doesn't mean that nobody else should know that skill)

If a small business can't stand on the convenience of the service it offers, then when it does finally go under - That's nobody else's fault. I recently had a central heating valve leak onto another and shorted it out - A plumbing and electrical problem combined. I diagnosed the issue myself and purchased the part, but even though I could change the valve myself I called out a plumber and told them exactly what to replace. Why did I call a plumber to do a job I could do myself? Convenience - I frankly couldn't be bothered to drain the system, simple as that. Did my knowledge of electrical and plumbing diagnostics put a small business out of business? No, quite the opposite actually as the plumber could do an extra call-out on that day.

There's an aspect of repair shops that I think is being missed over avoiding landfill and that is inspiring people to fix their own stuff. Too many times you take a broken item into a large business for repair and it's all behind closed doors. In practice, they just replace an entire control board because of one component and then charge you £800+VAT. If a component repair was done in front of somebody and people could see that it's just that one little capacitor, they might be inspired to actually learn the skill. Knowledge should be free to all, that doesn't devalue the skill because experience and convenience are where the value should lie. Again, if a business can't stand on the service if offers - It wasn't a viable business in the first place.

 

[awsm]

My dad volunteers at one local to him. My basic understanding is the things brought in and services vary from reparing small electrical items, sharpening small garden tools and I think they also offer some IT assistance.