Help with new old lathe

[Fergie 307]

Probably 1/4 but could be UNF, UNC or Whitworth. Be careful of the latter two as they have the same pitch, but a different thread profile. Hopefully someone on here will know.

 

[John Brown]

I've done some measurements, and believe it to be 1/4" UNC. Although Whitworth is very similar, I can't imagine Arundel using Whitworth.

 

[John Brown]

One the things that came with this lathe is what I think I've identified as a collet chuck, albeit only with one set of (4) jaws.
It was seized up solid, and after soaking in white spirit and two-stroke oil to no avail, I resorted to heat, and finally got it working.
I presume the strategy is to turn a short tenon of the right diameter on the end of the workpiece by other means, and then fit the collet chuck. Is that about right?

 

[Jacob]

One the things that came with this lathe is what I think I've identified as a collet chuck, albeit only with one set of (4) jaws.
It was seized up solid, and after soaking in white spirit and two-stroke oil to no avail, I resorted to heat, and finally got it working.
I presume the strategy is to turn a short tenon of the right diameter on the end of the workpiece by other means, and then fit the collet chuck. Is that about right?

Lots of different designs kicking about. Basically either to tighten on to the workpiece or to expand into a recess in it, such as a bowl bottom. Other add-ons possible.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If it's like the Myford one it is in effect a collet chuck - there's no facility for it to expand, just contract. If it's all you have better than nothing, but a pain in jacksie.

 

[Fergie 307]

I've done some measurements, and believe it to be 1/4" UNC. Although Whitworth is very similar, I can't imagine Arundel using Whitworth.

Cheap enough to get one each of UNC and Whit and compare with the original. The angle of the thread is 55° on one and 60 on the other. Not easy to tell them apart but offer up a new one against the old, provided it's not too worn, and it will be apparent which is correct. Lots of British companies were still using Whitworth threads, particularly on machine tools and similar stuff. You need to get it right as on a short thread the wrong one may go in, but you will damage the thread. Alternatively if you have any metal working pals who have thread cutting tools or chasers, then they will tell them apart.

 

[John Brown]

I will ask my neighbour if he has anything. You say cheap enough to get one of each, but without a good local hardware store, the P&P becomes significant. I just ordered a new belt from RS components, the belt was about £3, but their only shipping option was next day, so the belt now cost £11. When it turned up I realised I'd ordered a 480mm instead of 840mm!
I'm sure they'd refund me, but the return postage, even by the cheapest option, makes it pointless. Before you know it, that £50 lathe has cost you a lot more.
I used to go sailing in Greece and Turkey with a friend who owned a boat, and you'd walk into a hardware store in the back of beyond and show them some belt, and ask if they had one, and they say "of course!", and take one from a dusty shelf.
There are probably places 8n Gloucester or Bristol, I just haven't found them yet. Before we moved there was a fasteners place in Hersham who were excellent, but I'm not going that way anytime soon.
Moan over.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://drivebeltsolutions.co.uk/
are excellent for belts.
edit - I often get two belts at a time, the P&P often being as much as the belt. Belt and braces ...

 

[John Brown]

https://drivebeltsolutions.co.uk/
are excellent for belts.
edit - I often get two belts at a time, the P&P often being as much as the belt. Belt and braces ...

Thanks, I'll file that away. I actually found one on Amazon for 4.88 including postage, which should be here today.

 

[Jacob]

Mine is(was) blue, and here is a bad picture (it's in pieces right now). The disc on the left of the headstock is what I thought was an outboard face plate, as it screws on with a lh thread, and has two sets of three holes in it.
....

Yes it is - I thought you were talking of the plate covering the sealed bearings, seen on other models.

 

[John Brown]

I seem to remember some talk about this on here before, but I'm contemplating using the outboard face plate to make a disc sander, for tool grinding, amongst other things. Any advice welcomed in this regard, and also any pointers on velcro type backing.
I know this might seem like running before walking, but I'm merely trying to get my head round where to mount this lathe in my rather small workspace.

 

[John Brown]

Cheap enough to get one each of UNC and Whit and compare with the original. The angle of the thread is 55° on one and 60 on the other. Not easy to tell them apart but offer up a new one against the old, provided it's not too worn, and it will be apparent which is correct. Lots of British companies were still using Whitworth threads, particularly on machine tools and similar stuff. You need to get it right as on a short thread the wrong one may go in, but you will damage the thread. Alternatively if you have any metal working pals who have thread cutting tools or chasers, then they will tell them apart.

I think it is Whitworth. My neighbour found what he thought was a 1/4" Whitworth screw, but it feels very loose, so I'm guessing it(my neighbour's screw) might be UNC, as I found something on the web to that effect.
I suppose it makes sense to be Whitworth, I hadn't realised before that UNC was more of a USA thing.

 

[Jacob]

I seem to remember some talk about this on here before, but I'm contemplating using the outboard face plate to make a disc sander, for tool grinding, amongst other things. Any advice welcomed in this regard, and also any pointers on velcro type backing.
I know this might seem like running before walking, but I'm merely trying to get my head round where to mount this lathe in my rather small workspace.

Decide on size, screw on a disc of MFC and buy some stick-on velcro backing. It sticks well to the smooth surface. Widely available e.g.; VELCRO® Brand VEL-LOC® 175mm x 500mm PS18 Adhesive - For Sanding Pad Replacement
Also handy is a disc of plain MDF with autosol or similar - for almost instant high polish of cutting bevels.
Shape the edge of the disc to half round etc to polish inside of gouges
I keep meaning to get hold of a cheap old wrecked lathe headstock just to make a sharpening/polishing station

 

[John Brown]

Decide on size, screw on a disc of MFC and buy some stick-on velcro backing. It sticks well to the smooth surface. Widely available e.g.; VELCRO® Brand VEL-LOC® 175mm x 500mm PS18 Adhesive - For Sanding Pad Replacement
Also handy is a disc of plain MDF with autosol or similar - for almost instant high polish of cutting bevels.
Shape the edge of the disc to half round etc to polish inside of gouges
I keep meaning to get hold of a cheap old wrecked lathe headstock just to make a sharpening/polishing station

Thanks. Could I use the other side of the MDF disc for autosol?

 

[Jacob]

Thanks. Could I use the other side of the MDF disc for autosol?

MFC for shiny surface to hold stick-on velcro pads
MDF for more absorbent surface which holds the autosol or Brasso etc. You don't have to add it every time.

 

[John Brown]

MFC for shiny surface to hold stick-on velcro pads
MDF for more absorbent surface which holds the autosol or Brasso etc. You don't have to add it every time.

Ah! Read it too quickly...

 

[Fergie 307]

I think it is Whitworth. My neighbour found what he thought was a 1/4" Whitworth screw, but it feels very loose, so I'm guessing it(my neighbour's screw) might be UNC, as I found something on the web to that effect.
I suppose it makes sense to be Whitworth, I hadn't realised before that UNC was more of a USA thing.

Whitworth have threads at 55 degrees, UNC are 60. Most sizes have the same tpi.
So, particularly if the thread is a bit worn, it can be very difficult to tell them apart by simply screwing in a bolt. Easiest way for you is to get an example and push its threads up against those of the screw that came out. It will be immediately apparent if they are the same or not.
Remember it's not the tpi you are interested in, at 1/4 they will be the same, it's the angle. If you put two 60° threads together they will mesh perfectly, 60 and 55 and they wont. Providing you know for sure what the sample screw thread is, you have your answer.
Another way is to look around the machine for a half inch bolt if there is one. Take it out and measure the Tpi, Whit is 12, UNC 13. It's one of the few sizes where they differ. Since all the bolts used when new will almost certainly have been the same type, ie all UNC or all BSW then you know what your 1/4 is likely to be.
Many regard the two as effectively interchangeable, but often with vague terms like " in non critical applications". This is daft as they are not the same, and if you value the machine you need to make sure you get it right, tightening up the wrong one, especially if the thread is in cast iron, will damage it.

 

[John Brown]

Thanks. My problem is that my neighbour believes the sample screw he gave me is BSW, but since it came out of a box of random bits and pieces, there's no guarantee. Thus the fact that it's loose leads me to the conclusion that the pulley block is BSW, and my neighbour's screw is not. From my perspective, I can imagine that I'm going to sell this machine on at some point, as I doubt I'll ever be able to find chucks for it at a sensible price( the internet doesn't even agree on the headstock thread), so the less I spend on it the better.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you identify the spindle thread you could go for a Versachuck - if you sell the lathe on you need change only the backplate. Go for Versachuck/Axminster carriers - Versachuck jaws are cheaper and you can sometimes pick up Axminster jaws second hand.
https://www.beaufortink.co.uk/toolpost-versachuck-wood-lathe-chucks

 

[Jacob]

Thanks. My problem is that my neighbour believes the sample screw he gave me is BSW, but since it came out of a box of random bits and pieces, there's no guarantee. Thus the fact that it's loose leads me to the conclusion that the pulley block is BSW, and my neighbour's screw is not. From my perspective, I can imagine that I'm going to sell this machine on at some point, as I doubt I'll ever be able to find chucks for it at a sensible price( the internet doesn't even agree on the headstock thread), so the less I spend on it the better.

Getting the right chuck, plus adaptor if necessary, should be no prob. What chuck for Arundel j4 junior m24x2.5 spindle?
But chuck not essential - a faceplate on the inboard side can hold most things one way or another.
Drive centres are essential for spindle work and easy to find if they are missing.