Help Please - P/T Requires New Motor

[OPJ]

Well, I've had the Perform CCNPT planer thicknesser for almost two years and, three weeks ago, it decided to almost die on me.

One single piece of oak. I created a face and edge, fine. Change it over to get to the thicknesser, switch on and... Hang on, no, this sounds very, very slow! Switch off, disconnect, check all settings... Okay let's try again.

BUUUUUUZZZZZZZZ.

I've spoken to one of the guys on Axminster's technical team and he has told me it is most likely that the capacitor needs replacing. To get on from stock would take SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS before it arrived from the manufacturers! So, he offered me one of the same spec., albeit a smaller dimension (and shorter wires, by the way), for around £10 including p&p, straight from stock.

I've had a look at replacing it myself but seem to have come to a stumbling block over the crimps. The old one's are either brass or something, but are in no state to be reused. I bought a selection pack from Toolstation, but these are different to the 'plain' style used before and also of a larger diameter. To large to fit in to the junction box (choc block?) and held in place with a screw.

They're either 8mm or 9mm long and no more than 3mm in diameter. Sorry about this, I'm having trouble uploading photo's. But can anyone suggest where I might be able to find some new ones?

One last thing. The old capacitor had two rubber rings around it. Now, I'd guess these may've been for insulating purposes but the replacement (smaller diameter) doesn't come with any - I'm also wondering if it's neccesary to get hold of some more rubber rings?

Again, I apologise for the lack of photographs, which I'm hoping to get sorted ASAP. But hopefully, someone can help.

Thanks for looking,

Olly.

 

[Pecker]

Without knowing the machine, and without pictures it is a bit hard. The rubber bands are usually to aid insulation and avoid vibration. I cannot picture the crimps in my minds eye, but try looking at the Maplins website, http://www.maplin.co.uk/ or RS (who are bigger, but you may need to register on their site http://rswww.com ).

sorry cant help more at this stage.

regards
woody

 

[OPJ]

Thanks for the links Pecker.

I'll try and narrow it down a bit for you...
The crimps I'm searching for (if, indeed, they are "crimps") have no coloured plastic/PVC coating on the outside and no spade connectors on the end or anything like that. If I can find the right diameter, I guess I could just cut that off anyway? They look similar to what you see underneath the PVC insulation.

If it also helps, the wires for the connection are either blue or grey - which I think means they're neutral?

Olly.

 

[tteedd]

Hi

I stuck 'Motor capacitor' into Google and came up with Maplin (already recomended) and some firm in Weymouth.
You should certainly get one cheaper from Maplin or RS but another option is to look up any Electroncs Clubs or Radio Societies (look up RSGB) in your area. They are usually very helpful and may have just what you want in their ods and ends box. They might even want some woodworking doing!

Ted

 

[Pecker]

dont be fooled by the wire clouring, that doesn't mean they are neutral. Capacitors are really funny blighters coming in a multitude of varieties both ac and dc. Some times inline with the current sometimes across it. Sometimes polarisied sometimes not.
Please do not take what I am about to say the wrong way. It might be better, if you can find a friend or collegue who knows a little more about electrics/electronics that can advise you on the scene, and can trace the route of the wiring, if you are unsure of your self.

However that said, IF the exisiting capacitor is NOT maked with a polarity and the replacement isnt either, then you can *probably* stick it in anyway round without worrying about the wiring colours.

You can get termminal connectors that are round as opposed to flat, usually designed for soldering, but not always.

If you get stuck, try your local tool hire shop and try to chat to as friendly engineer, he may have what you want!

regards
woody

 

[Inspector]

OPJ

If you know how to use a soldering iron then solder the wires together, and insulate with heat shrink tubing or wrap with electrical tape as a second choice.

Another way is to twist them together with small wire nuts (like the ones used in house wiring, Marrs (sp) is a common brand over here). Advantage is they don't need special tools to put together.

 

[OPJ]

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice guys. I have thought about soldering already but I'm concerned about soldering the wrong two wires together and, mainly, find that, because of the build up of solder, it still won't fit in the box where it's secured in place.

I've been playing around with it again recently, trying alternate wires in case I had it backwards, but still nothing. Not even a buzz. There is some recognition when I switch it to the correct mode though - if I set it up in 'planer' mode correctly and move the switch in the same direction, it goes 'click', but still nothing more. If I leave it set up in planer mode but move the switch to 'thicknesser', no click at all.

I decided a while ago that I wanted to upgrade to an Axminster planer thicknesser, which, all around, appears to be much better built for an extra £100. I wanted to fix this first and then stick it on eBay, but what do you guys reckon are the chances I'll still get £200 for it, as it is? (Original cost was £400 two years ago, with wheel stand).

Alternatively, I might try asking Axminster and see if they'll kindly do any part-exchange discounted offer on one of their own... :wink:

 

[Racers]

Hi, OJP

Motor start capactiors can be fitted etiher way round as they work on AC not DC.
It might be you have a different problem with your planer like the switch or any of the wiring, does it have and saftey switches? go over it and look at all the wires and connections, do the all look alright most problems can be seen so check it out.

Pete

 

[OPJ]

I've had a look over it myself but can't see anything blindingly obviously wrong or out-of-place. Axminster's latest suggestion is that I get an electrician in to have a look as it could be something to do with the motor itself, if it's not the capacitor, and would require checking for resistance (?!?) and stuff like that.

I've got a picture of the capacitors here (small one is the newer). You might notice that the actual wiring's a different colour (one's copper, other is silver?) and of course, they're different in size. But rated the same. Also note the absence of rubber rings around the new one - could either of these two points really make a difference?

As for the actual crimps/connectors used to hold two wires together, I found some very similar to these on the RS website.

(Apologies for this, but I don't know why the images from Flickr aren't being displayed when it worked fine with something else last night?)
Pictures sorted for you DaveL

 

[DaveL]

I've got a picture of the capacitors here (small one is the newer). You might notice that the actual wiring's a different colour (one's copper, other is silver?) and of course, they're different in size. But rated the same. Also note the absence of rubber rings around the new one - could either of these two points really make a difference?

Olly
Both of the wires will be made from copper just that the new cap has had the copper tin coated, makes no difference in use.
I think the rubber rings are there as part of the mounting for the old cap, was it trapped by them in a bracket? No effect on the electrical properties of the device.
It does look like something else is at fault.
I have one of these machines, I keep it set up as a thicknesser, if I set the switch to planer and press the button I can hear the brake being applied. I did have a problem with the interlock, in thicknessing mode there is a lever that the dust hood holds up inside the machine, this had been bent and was not being moved. I straightened it and it all works again.

 

[OPJ]

Hi Dave, I think you might be right about the rubber rings; I remember the old capacitor fitting in to place with those on when I first removed it. I've also had problems with the interlock switches before and it drove me nuts trying to figure it out (it actually made things worse, at the time...). But I've checked it all over again since and everything's in place.

Do you think that launching the brand new capacitor across the workshop at high speed in a burst of frustration may have done any significant damage to it...?

I haven't actually tried reconnecting it properly either. What I mean it, I've only crimped the wires using 'standard' crimps, which won't fit back in to the junction box... Perhaps I should try the right way first?

My planer 'went' while connected to my Record Power RSDE2-A auto-switching extractor, which has recently stopped working also!! :x The maximum stated power tool rating is 2,200w - which is the same as the planer thicknesser. Could there be a link here as well?

I suppose I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and get someone in, either way. :?

 

[OPJ]

One good piece of news: my dust extractor is fine. All it required was a brand-new 13Amp fuse (I did notice it was faulty when I first bought the thing).

However, I'm still suffering with my planer and am now resigned to getting someone in to look at it. If it's gonna cost too much, then it's going on eBay as 'faulty' or whatever. Is this something your average electrician should be looking at?

I managed to succesfully reconnect the new capacitor using some 2.5mm bootleg ferule connectors (thanks to RSwww!) Although, the capacitor is a little 'free' and not held in place like the old one was. I switch it on and it takes a while for the speed to build up, almost like an industrial machine. It still doesn't sound right.

Attempt to slowly feed a piece of scrap at a low depth of cut and you can hear the machine really struggling. Switch off. Switch on again; BUUUUUZZ! I also noticed that by pushing the blades in the right direction (with a piece of timber!!), while it's buzzing, it will eventually turn over and start up again. Still, at the same old sluggish place though.

One more thing worth mentioning is that the mains lead gets quite warm also. I forgot t mention this to Axminster, but they reckon the problem could lie within the motor.

Anyway, I have no clue as to how to check for resistance and all that so I'm gonna have to bite the bullet. Maybe this'll all help somebody else one day.

 

[Duncan]

OJP

Why not just take the motor off the machine and trot down ur local electrical motor rewind shop (Yellow pages). They should be able to test the motor for you and should it need replacing give u a quote. My local one in Preston will test the motor for free.

Regards

Duncan

 

[OPJ]

After needlessly making a meal of getting the motor off, I finally got the motor in to a Motor Rewind Shop this week! The news isn't good though. After an initial look and a description of the problems I've been having, it is believed that something (although I can't remember what!) inside the motor has gone and needs replacing. It may be repairable, but it would also work out at least £50 cheaper to buy a brand-new motor from Axminster (£105.75 inc. VAT).

He's gonna take a proper look inside anyway and get back to me Monday/Tuesday, just in case. He also seems to think I have overloaded the motor in some way. I have never taken heavy cuts, although I started using an extension lead/cable reel just before the trouble began. Oh, and there is the auto-switching dust extractor of course with a maximum 'power tool' rating of 2,200w - exactly the same as my P/T... Yep, although it worked fine once, that probably did it in switching on the second time! :shock: :roll:

I narrowly missed out an a 'returned' Axminster AW106 Planer/Thicknesser yesterday, by just £10 off my maxmimum bid! It was returned because apparently it kept blowing fuses. This was only because the user had inadvertently bent one of the interlock switches and was easily repaired. The knife-setting gauge (£14.10) was also missing and apart from all that, you only stumbling block was that you had to collect the 150kg monster from them down in Devon.
I've seen a couple of these planers on eBay before - so I'm keeping 'em peeled. :shock: :wink:

 

[OPJ]

One more thing. Anyone know if I'd be able to find the same motor cheaper anywhere else? The guy looking at the old one hasn't offered me a quote on a replacement yet.

It's 2,200w motor (3HP?). although I'm no certain of the other specs.

I've already looked on Machine Mart's site and their cheapest are £115.