Help Fixing Beginner Problems?

[Daniel Troy]

I made a couple of desks when I first started wood working but the tops have twisted and warped heavily. I am about to pick up a jack plane and a jointer plane and I decided that I would use one of the table tops to practice my hand plane skills.

My question is, the table is finished with a water based wood stain and polyurethane top coat. Can I just start planing or do I have to strip back the finish before I can start planing?

Side note, I am going to buy some Axminster Rider planes. Are they the best mid range planes? The jointer plane costs £150.00 and the jack plane costs around £100.00. I could only afford to spend a little more so no chance of Veritas or Lie-Nielsen

 

[mbartlett99]

You can plane it off, it'll be a bit annoying but work fine.

 

[Ttrees]

You could buy at least two nice Stanley Baileys for 100 quid no bother on the bay without waiting.
That's what I would look for, make sure the soles (base) are nice and thick, and the irons have plenty of iron left in them.
Look for the older ones with no x ribbing on the castings.
One with a slight camber, the other for planing alternating grain with no tearout
You cant just have one plane for all, as you would be grinding off the camber if you have tearout,
then putting it back for general use.
I would get a nice no. 5 1/2 anyway 50 quid for a nice one, a no.4 for a tenner not much to go wrong with a short one and a jointer ...make sure you can see both ends face on, to see that it hasn't been
lapped by a numpty and the sole really thin.
Yes you can swipe off the finish with one stroke, its very satisfying
I do it all the time whilst reclaiming iroko doors mostly.
You may want glasses as the finish dust goes on your face.
Happy to give you my opinion on the planes if you PM me some links
A no 4 would be a good start to get initiated into ebay plane buying
I wouldn't be too picky about the shorter one, just make sure the sole is clean
by that I mean no chips from the mouth or heavy heavy rust blooms.
EDIT
look on ebay.co.uk instead of .ie because you will have more of a selection, you can ask them for postage costs if not stated/if ebay says not available to Ireland
Tom

 

[Daniel Troy]

Thanks for the reply and message. I cant reply via PM yet as I need more activity on my account and I only joined today. Whats the pro's of buying used planes? Is it only the cost savings or do you think that Stanley one would be better than the Axminster rider ones?

I was going to buy the Axminster Rider No. 5 1/2 Jack Plane. Cant post a link as my account is brand new.

 

[Cordy]

Daniel
You don't say where you live

If you live near me you can have a Jack plane for free

Cordy

 

[Ttrees]

I'd much prefer the look of the Baileys, and the fact that its an old heritage tool.
I think from the looks of the Rider planes, that the Stanley would be more comfortable...
and I like the cam lever rather than the turn screw.
Another thing is the mouth is quite large to accommodate for the thicker iron, which I dislike.
No doubt that the Axi planes would be just as good, they still don't have square sides
just like all the vintage planes.
Combine this with the price difference and for me, no contest.

Don't know if they're made from ductile iron (unbreakable) or regular cast iron...
That might be important if your starting out, and don't have a proper workflow/space/ dedicated placement or workbench.
Tom

 

[Daniel Troy]

Daniel
You don't say where you live

If you live near me you can have a Jack plane for free

Cordy

Thats very kind of you Cordy but I live in Ireland and see that you live in England. Thank you for the offer none the less.

 

[Daniel Troy]

I'd much prefer the look of the Baileys, and the fact that its an old heritage tool.
I think from the looks of the Rider planes, that the Stanley would be more comfortable...
and I like the cam lever rather than the turn screw.
Another thing is the mouth is quite large to accommodate for the thicker iron, which I dislike.
No doubt that the Axi planes would be just as good, they still don't have square sides
just like all the vintage planes.
Combine this with the price difference and for me, no contest.

Don't know if they're made from ductile iron (unbreakable) or regular cast iron...
That might be important if your starting out, and don't have a proper workflow/space/ dedicated placement or workbench.
Tom

Cool, thanks for the info. Do they typically require a lot of work after they are bought? I have worked as a butcher for over a decade so sharpening is fine but not sure how I would go about flattening the base etc...

 

[custard]

I haven't used a Rider plane so can't comment. But these are in a similar price bracket and I've used them and know some really first rate cabinet makers who own them and rate them highly,
https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... plane.html

These are another alternative,
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

Both of these planes will work very well straight out of the box. A decent old Stanley or Record would serve you equally well, but you might be unlucky and get one that needs a fair bit of work, a challenge you may not have the skills or the time to complete.

However, a key advantage of a Record or Stanley is the thinner irons, that makes sharpening relatively quick and easy. Once you get into thicker irons, and in particular thicker irons made from A2 steel, after the first eight or ten honings you'll find subsequent honings are taking quite a bit of time. And, unless you regrind, that chore will only get longer and harder. Personally I don't think thicker irons are really viable without a power assisted grinder.

The good news is that with a budget of £250 you could get both an excellent 5 1/2 plane plus a power grinder. A 5 1/2 will pretty much meet all your bench planing needs, if I was looking for a second plane after a 5 1/2 it would probably be a cheap as chips old wooden jack set up with an aggressive camber for rough initial work. After that the 5 1/2 would do everything from edge jointing, to finish planing, to shooting board work.

Just my 2p's worth.

 

[Ttrees]

I haven't found it necessary to do the two 51/2's I have, and they still have the few wee blemishes on them.
These are within tolerance for me to work with the cap iron setting , which means a dang fine whispy shavings that
stays in the cut.
Never needed to take out the frog or anything, although I have done with a no.8 for no reason atall, and feel silly about it.
Tom

 

[Tasky]

Cool, thanks for the info. Do they typically require a lot of work after they are bought? I have worked as a butcher for over a decade so sharpening is fine but not sure how I would go about flattening the base etc...

If you get one in good nick to start with, they shouldn't need much more than a bit of a clean up and oiling, check the sole is flat (and flatten it if not), sharpen it up and you're generally good to go. It might take a touch of work and a touch of sharpening practice, but nothing you'd not need to learn at some point anyway.

You should check out Tooltique - Refurbed tools at decent prices.
Right now they have No5 and No 5½ Jack Planes for £65 and No7 Jointers for £95. Stanley or Record, both are good.
Me personally, I'd also suggest getting a No4 Smoothing plane (they have 'em for about £30) - not the heavier, wider 4½... just the plain old No 4 - It doesn't cost much and as a newbie myself, I found the lightweight No4 has come in extremely handy quite often.
All three would set you back, what, £190... That leaves you plenty for some diamond sharpening plates, or a grinding wheel or whatever. Maybe some card scrapers, a spokeshave or just a few beers!!

 

[Ttrees]

Agreed, the suggestion of getting one of those diamond plates
If you keep your eyes peeled, you can get Ultex brand which are bonded to a flat plate nickel plated half price so around a tenner when they come on sale.
I seem to recall that possibly being twice a year, but could be wrong.

 

[Daniel Troy]

I haven't used a Rider plane so can't comment. But these are in a similar price bracket and I've used them and know some really first rate cabinet makers who own them and rate them highly,
https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... plane.html

These are another alternative,
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

Both of these planes will work very well straight out of the box. A decent old Stanley or Record would serve you equally well, but you might be unlucky and get one that needs a fair bit of work, a challenge you may not have the skills or the time to complete.

However, a key advantage of a Record or Stanley is the thinner irons, that makes sharpening relatively quick and easy. Once you get into thicker irons, and in particular thicker irons made from A2 steel, after the first eight or ten honings you'll find subsequent honings are taking quite a bit of time. And, unless you regrind, that chore will only get longer and harder. Personally I don't think thicker irons are really viable without a power assisted grinder.

The good news is that with a budget of £250 you could get both an excellent 5 1/2 plane plus a power grinder. A 5 1/2 will pretty much meet all your bench planing needs, if I was looking for a second plane after a 5 1/2 it would probably be a cheap as chips old wooden jack set up with an aggressive camber for rough initial work. After that the 5 1/2 would do everything from edge jointing, to finish planing, to shooting board work.

Just my 2p's worth.

Thanks for showing me workshop heaven. So much to look at and spend my scant savings on haha. There is a guy selling selling a Clifton 5 1/2 Jack Plane locally. How exactly could I assess if the plane is good when I went to inspect it?

 

[Daniel Troy]

Agreed, the suggestion of getting one of those diamond plates
If you keep your eyes peeled, you can get Ultex brand which are bonded to a flat plate nickel plated half price so around a tenner when they come on sale.
I seem to recall that possibly being twice a year, but could be wrong.

I actually have a DMT Coarse Diamond stone. They are very good stones. Electro plated with mono crystaline diamonds. About to order a 1,000 grit one too! They are about €70.00 each so a little on the high end.

 

[custard]

I've used DMT stones for many years Daniel, they're excellent products and as a full time furniture maker I can vouch that they stand up well to the rough and tumble of professional use. However, if you're considering spending that kind of money you may want to also consider Atoma. I'm currently switching from DMT to Atoma, there's not a huge amount in it but I think on balance Atoma have the edge. They're distributed in Europe by Dieter Schmidt, which is another excellent retailer that you should have on your radar,

https://www.fine-tools.com/diasharpener.html

 

[Ttrees]

Scant savings you say...
and your considering a Clifton?
Cheapest surface plate you can find more than likely is a piece of float glass
not plate glass, nor toughened.
Float glass will have a green tinge to it. get the thickest piece you can find.
try a fridge shelf and some ink to simulate Prussian blue .
Or try and find an offcut or broken piece of stone or black granite stove hearth from a stove
or ceramic shop who do fireplaces.
You will have to find a piece of dead flat something to check this, and have a flat surface to lay the glass on so it won't deflect, if you cant find granite/stone .
Rub the flat thing on the surface plate and look for where the ink rubs off, orientate the flat thing
the other way around and repeat, you should get the same result.
You will be very hard pressed to find a good tutorial about lapping planes on youtube
You can't just rub a plane on a dead flat surface plate with spotlessly clean paper and get a true
flat surface on your plane sole, as you need to have the edges perimeter of the plane proud
, otherwise you will create a rocking effect, both lengthwise and widthwise.
The most famous lifestyle woodworker has a video which you should avoid, avoid like the plague!
You need abrasive bonded to the surface plate, spray adhesive will do, lesser than the width and length of the plane, this will hold another sheet the same width secure.
and don't touch the edges of your plane with it!
The edges needs to be proud so that 5 passes will finish it off, no more!
If I were near broke I would look for the same plane as linked but waiting for auctions instead
and get one with a bit of blemishing all over for about 27 quid for a no.5 1/2 Stanley.
you should be able to get a jack, joiner and smoother for the price of what you mentioned first.
You want to see the plane not touching in the middle, propellor-ing
The plane needs to be under tension with the lever cap and blade retracted.
If you do this correctly you will see the plane pivot from the toe and the heel, as in
lightly holding the casting at the very edge with very light fingers.
pivot from the opposite end and the result should be the same.
Prussian blue is the key word you should look for, an precision engineering term, these are the guys
you should look at, as no woodworking videos display these skills on video.
No matter how convincing they sound, if they are abrading the edges of the plane, they don't know what their talking about!
Dont be fooled by high quality video production!
The plane needs a minute hollow so only the very last five passes will make the edges come down
to the same level as the middle of the sole.
Have to go now, cant be more specific
Tom

 

[Fergal]

I have about a dozen various Stanley and Record planes that I've either inherited or got from boot sales, ebay etc. I've never paid more than £25 for any of them. Once cleaned up and sharpened they all work very well.

Sharpening doesn't need expensive diamond stones. If a blade is badly chipped, it will need grinding. This can be done with a bench grinder or belt sander. Sharpening can be done with wet & dry paper and a piece of glass (search "scary sharp"). I would recommend a honing guide as this makes it a lot easier to get consistent bevels on your plane irons.

There are loads of youtube videos on restoring planes. You don't need any expensive equipment to do it. Here's a good one from Mitch Peacock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtfS-EMtBho

 

[Mr T]

Scant savings you say...
and your considering a Clifton?
Cheapest surface plate you can find more than likely is a piece of float glass
not plate glass, nor toughened.
Float glass will have a green tinge to it. get the thickest piece you can find.
try a fridge shelf and some ink to simulate Prussian blue .
Or try and find an offcut or broken piece of stone or black granite stove hearth from a stove
or ceramic shop who do fireplaces.
You will have to find a piece of dead flat something to check this, and have a flat surface to lay the glass on so it won't deflect, if you cant find granite/stone .
Rub the flat thing on the surface plate and look for where the ink rubs off, orientate the flat thing
the other way around and repeat, you should get the same result.
You will be very hard pressed to find a good tutorial about lapping planes on youtube
You can't just rub a plane on a dead flat surface plate with spotlessly clean paper and get a true
flat surface on your plane sole, as you need to have the edges perimeter of the plane proud
, otherwise you will create a rocking effect, both lengthwise and widthwise.
The most famous lifestyle woodworker has a video which you should avoid, avoid like the plague!
You need abrasive bonded to the surface plate, spray adhesive will do, lesser than the width and length of the plane, this will hold another sheet the same width secure.
and don't touch the edges of your plane with it!
The edges needs to be proud so that 5 passes will finish it off, no more!
If I were near broke I would look for the same plane as linked but waiting for auctions instead
and get one with a bit of blemishing all over for about 27 quid for a no.5 1/2 Stanley.
you should be able to get a jack, joiner and smoother for the price of what you mentioned first.
You want to see the plane not touching in the middle, propellor-ing
The plane needs to be under tension with the lever cap and blade retracted.
If you do this correctly you will see the plane pivot from the toe and the heel, as in
lightly holding the casting at the very edge with very light fingers.
pivot from the opposite end and the result should be the same.
Prussian blue is the key word you should look for, an precision engineering term, these are the guys
you should look at, as no woodworking videos display these skills on video.
No matter how convincing they sound, if they are abrading the edges of the plane, they don't know what their talking about!
Dont be fooled by high quality video production!
The plane needs a minute hollow so only the very last five passes will make the edges come down
to the same level as the middle of the sole.
Have to go now, cant be more specific
Tom

Well that was pretty specific and authoritive but I also found it fairly comprehensible

 

[g7g7g7g7]

I've had a shot on a couple of Rider planes recently, nice heavy castings if you like that sort of thing, but terrible cap irons, horrible, horrible cap irons.

https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/vintag ... dy-to-use/

Tooltique are a good trade off between buying blind on ebay and buying new online, you know that someone's had a look at it and all the bits are there at least.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nice No.6. JFDI.
another-clear-out-t113612.html