Help designing and building a workshop

[threedee]

Well, my life came to a point where i want to change my hobby (and career?).
But for that i need a workshop.

I'm running on no budget at all so for now i have set my goal to put a frame up, wind/rain proof, so i can later build up little by little. Just cant afford to do this "properly" at this time.

Already put a good concrete slab foundation, 6x4m (20x13ft).
Plan is to erect timber frame (2"x4") with single slope roof, 2.4m on high side, 2.3m on low side, inside. Is the 100mm drop over 5m enough ? 5m because i'll leave front overhanging by about 750mm. Roof beams 2"x8", put on edge for more support, spanning entire width of 4m between front and back walls.
I already have skip dove for 3x windows (1190x1510mm frame) and 1x doors (890x2080mm frame), pvc doubleglazed. Putting pvc door for walking in and probably another door (wider/double) to be used for bigger things coming in and out of the shop.
Will cover in corrugated metal cladding, roof partially in translucent plastic corrugated to let more light in.

To be honest i dont know what i'm doing. I havent a first clue about framing, need tips to efficiently design this not to burn thru too much of timber. Also, i need the design so it can be built in phases, cant build everything at once. Meaning, framing/weatherproof/windows/doors first, then floor, then insulation/electrics, then finishing.

Since i'm of IT/Cad/Graphics background i'm playing about with sketchup trying to figure things out as i go...
Will post my first concepts for critique.

Reading lots of stuff, but i like "live support"

At this very moment i need help with framing, saving as much wood as possible without compromising structure.

Any takers for an online apprentice carpenter ?

P.S. Did i tell you i dont know what i'm doing ?

 

[Tom K]

Follow the link http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showt ... don-t-even






but not the plan (homer)

 

[threedee]

Nice one. Although i dont think i could be this bad. There's good basis for that statement too - i'm a bit of a stickler to detail so this kind of thing would set off my ocd somewhat nasty...

Also, i'm not too bad with tools, living in a country will teach you a thing or two, but never built anything bigger...

 

[nev]

tip 1 . make it from 'panels' built with 4x2 frames in sizes of 2.4m x 1.2m or 2.4 x 2.4 and buy your timber in 4.8m lengths - makes for a lot less wastage. use thin(ner) OSB to make the frame rigid 1.2 x 2.4 sheets so no cutting needed apart from your doors and windows.

 

[Tom K]

Fair enough this thread has some useful bits for you. build-a-shed-mike-s-way-t39389.html If you have access to the Fine Homebuilding site there's lots of stuff on stick construction that you can adapt.

 

[threedee]

Yeah, read that thread yesterday and its exactly what i CANT DO because it has to be built in stages (correction: i need to build in stages and as its planned and executed in that thread its a single continuous build). I cant leave frame with plastic sheeting sitting for half a year Its too complicated and too expensive. I could live there too

 

[threedee]

Ok, here are some screens from my second concept, as per nev's suggestion to work in 1.2 and 2.4 modules.
Problem with 4th beam, modularity went out the window, because, windows... Window frame width is 1190 so i cant put osb neither vertical nor horizontal as it misses one vertical support... had to improvise. Advice ?

Note that i didnt allow for one board thickness and now i have 38mm gap on the top under roof beams. to be corrected.

Also, how to go about left most and right most beams ? osb doesnt cover them, how should i go about that ?

Roof cover is wip.

http://imgur.com/C4SSrUo
http://imgur.com/JpkaBrf
http://imgur.com/UeGHC34
http://imgur.com/jIXg25d
http://imgur.com/uD55yhG
http://imgur.com/zpdILAo
http://imgur.com/ELUtLZU
http://imgur.com/ABfCLo1

 

[MickCheese]

From the look of your plans I have the following observations.

Your roof beams look too far apart, they need to be at least 600mm between centres I think.

The corner with the two windows looks very flimsy.

By building in panels what was meant was lay the 2x4s on the ground and make your frame then cover them in OSB or whatever you are using then lift them all into place and fix them together. When I did my last but one shed I also used a continuous header at the top to join all the panels, so you had two pieces of wood at the top that the roof beams rested on.


I am not a builder, I have just built a number of sheds over the years so this may be complete tosh.

Good luck.

Mick

 

[Tom K]

That shed needs more wood 16" on centre was an old maxim I think.

 

[MickCheese]

That shed needs more wood 16" on centre was an old maxim I think.

I think you are right as that is 400mm and that divides into 1200mm, the width of the sheets exactly.

Sorry if I confused anyone.

Mick

 

[nev]

yep! what nick says, lay it on the ground and work around your windows doors etc

use the sheet material to keep it rigid and square

 

[MickCheese]

Have a look here.

http://m.wikihow.com/Build-a-Shed

Simple but easy to follow and adapt to what you want.

Mick

 

[threedee]

Redesigning my plans. Numbering questions to keep answering easier and not losing track...

1. Panels it is, but i'm worried about the size of front and back being 6m and as a single panel it may be too big ? No ?
2. Covering in OSB, 9mm for walls.
3. I'm aiming for a warm roof, any good examples of cheapish way of doing this ? No kingspan bs Need to prevent condensation/damp. Need to plan this ahead as i wont have money to do this right away. Element proofing comes first.
4. Walls to be covered in polyethylene sheet to waterproof ? frame batons - plastic sheet - osb. (not to confuse with breathable fancy sheeting).
5. According to building regs i can space my beams at 600mm if 4m span and 50x200mm timber used. And then put some noggins in, though that is not required.
6. I'm still unsure if i should build all walls equal height (2.4m) and then lift front edge up to form a slope OR build side frames and back frames with 100mm slope in mind ?? I'd say first method is easier. Using firings is an overkill imho...
7. What is the required slope to effectively shed water ? Using either plastic or metal box corrugated.
8. How to secure the whole building to the concrete ? I don't fancy my shed being blown over by some gale force winds...

Sorry for a mess of questions, just sitting here, looking at sketchup and scratching my head...
I had come across some financing so quick comments are appreciated.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

1) No a 6m span is fine. Noggin your wall frames, strengthen those corners.
Work on gaps of 600mm instead of 1000 in your images.
2) I'd rethink the 9mm osb. I'd want an 18mm skin, I'm also a fan of real wood though.
3) By warm roof do you mean 'warm roof' as in the type (externally insulated) or just something warm?
If you've got 200mm of insulation your laughing.
4) Whatever you choose as an external skin should be waterproof, a barrier is a failsafe.
Have you designed in base boards? You have timber walls going down to the ground. Could you put in a course of bricks to stop your walls acting like a sponge?
5) You can never have enough noggins.
6) Build 3 at minimum, front higher and let your diagonals sort the rest.
7) Think hard about condensation when using plastic or corrogated steel. Wood and felt is tried and tested.
If you are concerned about pitch, make it dual, half the span, double the angle, sort the drainage to stop it soaking back up your walls when it lands (guttering).
8 ) Concrete screws, straps or brackets will all do the job with a variety of aesthetic impacts. I like concrete screws myself as they are hidden.

Get some real advice, the internet is great, but find a handy mate to talk things through with, or.your liable to.make a hash of it, as you've admitted, you don't really know what you're doing.

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Oh and stop messing about on sketchup, it's great for proof of concept, but get some paper and a pencil, start sketching, trying things and making mistakes.
Squared paper is great for scale drawing.

So much faster too(!)

(And of course good luck and enjoy!)

 

[threedee]

Its happening !

Just bought most of materials needed to build my v2 design (panel built).
Roof is still undergoing design, because i acquired a 1x2m fixed window(or rather half of double sliding door) and now need to redesign slope to allow better water shedding. Also, since i decided to go panels, i designed them all the same height, so, roof can be of any incline i deem necessary upon starting its build (not really wise, i know). I'm adding an 8x2 on top plate on one side for slope formation.

Someone will have to educate me on flashing/leakproofing skylight... Also materials needed to do that.

Clearing the jungle behind the house i found 17 195x195x90mm glass blocks that i might use somewhere. Any ideas where/how ? First thought is to somehow slap them in roof slope over top plate... No idea at this point.

Also, OH MY GOD osb3 is f****ng expensive. Didnt expect it to be this damaging to my budget. Had to choose 9mm over (usual?) 18mm... (i feel some kicking incoming over this )... Will be painting it over with oil based exterior paint to preserve it.

Anyone interested, here, my sketchup mess:
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0

Note there is no slope in the roof, its because its easier to work in flat plane (i'm a beginner at sketchup so no kicking please).
Slope will be towards back of building (wall opposite to windows)
To the right of the shed is the frame layout and some materials.
At this point roof is decked in same osb, but will be covered in tin box cladding right away.

Still working out details and learning a lot as i go, but framing starts sometime this week... Wish me luck.

And just for curious ones i will post bill of materials/prices/photos a bit later. Also, building work in progress photos, so you all can laugh at me while i make a complete mess of things For entertainment value, so to speak - "IT guy builds a thing"...

#Edit# Scored 25kg box of 3" nails for 10 quid. Way more nails than i will ever need... Auction houses rule...

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Have you priced up t&g in comparison to osb? You might be pleasantly suprised.
It is more work, but could look so much better.

 

[threedee]

No i havent and now its too late anyway...

 

[CaptainCaveman]

Fairynuff, how are you covering the osb joins, clapping strips?

 

[threedee]

I was thinking sealing edges with lots of oil based paint or some such.
Was i thinking wrong ?

Sometime in the future osb walls will get covered in box tin profile, or something that covers osb. Shiplap, tin... what else is there ?