Help buying table saw

[tren]

Hi all,

I am looking for a a good solid table saw for my workshop.

We have recently moved into an old farm in the south west and am doing all the renovation myself. One of the first wood job I need to do is replacing lots of casement and sash windows but ultimately a lot bigger jobs (stairs, beams, rafters and eventually furniture).

I have plenty of space for my workshop/tools as we have empty barns so I don't mind going with something solid like a cast iron as I have no reason/need to move it. I don't want to spend too much as we have a lot of work and materials to pay for ahead of us.

I have done some research and noticed that second hand startite comes up a lot. I had a look online but not really sure what I am after in terms of model, condition and price.

I would be grateful for some helpt and be pointed in the right direction and/or anyone knows of one for sale?

Thanks!

 

[deema]

The old Startrite are a very capable saw, a lot of saw in a very compact unit. There are various models, but probably the two most popular are the 275 and the 175. These can cut (approx) 100mm and 75mm respectively at 90 degrees. They both have two variants the TS and DS, the later designating that it has a sliding table, which is very useful. Would I recommend these saws, absolutely. I’ve restored a number and they are good quality, highly reliable, keep their value / increase in value.

There are a few people who restore wood working machines well and worth paying the extra money for, and then there are a lot of rascals who are after a quick easy money and don’t know what they are doing. Always take someone who knows about wood working machines with you if buying secondhand if you’re not fully familiar with them yourself.

If you’re interested in restoring a saw, then post on here and we can all help with anything that might seem perplexing. They are nice saws to work on, you don’t need many tools to do it, but it does take time. However, at the end you will have a saw that is better than entry level Machine.

Another good brand to look at are the Wadkin stable of saws. @wallace has restored some of the larger machine and posted threads on his wonderful work. @Sideways and I have posted restorations we have done of the smaller table saw again you can look up.

Alternatively have a look at Sedgwick saws, they have changed little over the years and spares are available for all but the LK range. @Sideways and I write a thread on restoring one.

My personal saw and favourite after experiencing a lot of saws is the SCM L’Invicible SI15, which is hardly know, fairly rare, very cheap when you find them and probably the most capable universal jack of all trades saws I’ve ever come across. Build quality is second to none.

 

[Fitzroy]

When you say "I had a look online but not really sure what I am after in terms of model, condition and price." what are your concerns?

My saw a Wadkin AGS 10 is on the smaller end of saws, like the startrite 175. It will happily cut through 80mm of oak, it's max depth of cut, but the table size is quite small and putting larger sheet good over it is difficult. I would like to make some larger furniture in the future and I'll need to set up some infeed and outfeed tables.

Regards

Fitz

 

[Ttrees]

I'm in the process of slowly sorting my 275DS, I have a 3phase version running from VFD.
What may be the most annoying thing about it is the fence.
It may come loose all of a sudden, and I haven't got to the bottom of that.
Some others have mentioned this also.

Another thing about the fence is the lack of an extrusion, to pull the fence back to the required distance for ripping, as per Roy Sutton's old video, "safe wood machining" on YT below.

Fair enough, one might say..you could simply make a wrap around sleeve for the fence,

though that would require replacing the original locking lever, or modifying a new one.
That wouldn't be so bad if I bought an imperial die, I could probably make something up which wouldn't foul the movable fence attachment, nor the rack and pinion adjuster.
It might be the most sensible thing to do, I haven't got there yet.

I'm planning to do more work on the machine, my base needs some mods concerning the feet,
and the brackets need to be raised at least one 3/4" thickness ply for these feet to be captured onto the hefty thread bar,
and just in the beginnings of making on a floating crown guard at the moment,
finish off the extension wing, and see about making an outfeed for it also.

It was suggested to me, that I should get a true slider, as in something that the sliding table
buts right up to the blade, since I'm going to all the bother.
I don't have the budget for that though.
For my use, I think it'll do fine, but can see that point in regards to the jobsite ones
what feature screaming universal motors what might let the magic smoke out, at any time..
I can't see anyone truly making one of those safe, for too many reasons to mention.

If I did just happen to see something, what was possibly half the cost, and the same money as a nice 275DS with metric fittings.
(some of the newer ones can have much more solid fences, as per Roy's one, optional?)
Mine prob should have been less than I paid, as the motor keyway wasn't sound,
should have isolated that to see what was going on, as it ran noisy, (without blade, I thought it was the arbor flanges knocking around, so see the machine running with a blade)
Those flanges need be cared for, as they can be troublesome.

There's some Wadkin's what have such a table, the BGS range
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/wadkin-bgs.115081/
Or some Far Eastern machines just might be in that money, with aluminium beds,
what's shorter than the likes of Hammer sliders, though not sure what the components
might be like.
should one have some sorta damage then it might suit, though that might be an optimistic assumption.

I've got no experience with the older heavier saws, with Imperial stuff and the non standard bearings some have, what are generally a much heavier machine than I can work with.

Some great reading on TS use on this here forum, some stuff what might make you think twice
in regards to your choice, and your intended usage.

Just finish up by mentioning most of the advise on YT is very very different to the way things are done here, and one would get booted out the door for the antics you often see demonstrated.



All the best
Tom

 

[Sideways]

Do you have 3 phase power ?

 

[Doug71]

It sounds like you have plenty of space so I would definitely be looking at something with a sliding table.

Sedgwick TA315 are a good saw or something like a Minimax SC3 which has the table sliding next to the blade is really useful.

 

[Ttrees]

Just asking for fun really, as I've no intention on getting another saw,
but found these pics of what might be possibly affordable,
and around Sedgwick money, though I did see Sedgewicks go for around 500 before,
but not since.
Obviously the SCM machines are another league altogether, regarding rigidity and budget,
and less likely to be moved.

An old slider what you might find is the BGS, which I guess can be halved in size much like the 275.
Unsure though, if you could get rid of the shoe readily.
Deema's resto of a BGS10 worth looking at.

And something Far Eastern with features,
though I've heard of these alloy bits wearing on much more spendy sliders.

Should that be the case, then it's likely these kinda yokes might be on the used market
from time to time for a more affordable cost,
so it'd be interesting to hear how repairable/modify-able the components might be to work with.

This is obviously something seemingly in good nick, and not something for 500 quid (euros) what's in the range of what I paid for my machine, and merely an example I stumbled on.

Tom

 

[tren]

Thanks all for your recommendations and advices.
To answer a few question:

- Unfortunately we don't have 3 phase where we are so it will need to be single.
- The barn/workshop is long (over 15m long) but it is narrow approx 2.5m width. Sliding is not an absolute necessity but would certainly come useful at times
- I am usually not shy when it comes to renovation but I need to get on with our building work asap so I would prefer paying a bit of a premium for a good working order machine or even already renovated by a professional.
- Budget is approximately £1k. Any pointers with regards to good places to buy or currently for sale machines?

 

[Sideways]

It's a useful budget but not huge.
I would set an automated search on ebay for a sedgwick ta315.
They are a modern enough design and used in small trade shops so they come up regularly.
They are massively stronger than anything Chinese, basically simple and will just keep doing what they do reliably.
They have a very solid steel bar at the front and robust cast bracket that supports the rip fence without flex.
You can find them in single phase, but if you have a friendly electrician you may have the option of buying a 3 phase phase one and running it off an electronic VFD.
In a narrow shop you don't have space to exploit a full on slider but the Sedgwick can be had with a simple sliding table. The TA315 is just a good robust table saw of trade quality. You will see examples for sale that could be put straight to use priced between £1000 and £1500

 

[Spectric]

One of the first wood job I need to do is replacing lots of casement and sash windows but ultimately a lot bigger jobs (stairs, beams, rafters and eventually furniture).

So the table saw is just for starters, thinking of sash windows then maybe you will be looking at a spindle moulder and here @deema will have an input.

Also before you do look at buying single or three phase machines think ahead, if you are going to do all this work and need machinery then big old three phase machines are not only better built but also more available so if you do not have a three phase supply look at having a digital phase convertor which will allow you to just buy three phase machines and use them without any modifications and the one unit will run multiple machines and could be more cost effective.

 

[Sideways]

Here are just a few threads you might want to look at to see what we're talking about:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/sedgwick-ta-315.138745/#post-1604331
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/sedgwick-or-axminster.130180/#post-1464226
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/table-saws-and-other-animals.130377/#post-1467057

 

[tren]

This came up very local to me for £900, is it worth it?

Otherwise I found a couple of Segwick TA135, one sold by a reseller (JMJ Woodworking Machine in Doncaster) but it hasn't got the sliding 'arm on the side for some reason asking for (£1,175). There is one relatively not far from me too but seems over priced for condition (rip fence damaged, asking for £1,600). There is third one taht seems in good nick but it's very far (up north) and am not sure how easy/expensive it would be to find someone to move and transport one of those machine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386277052393https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285557300249https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235272555563

 

[Sideways]

Those of us who buy old iron are looking for quality and most of us like a bargain too.
We get it when someone buys Axminster or other Chinese because they lack time or experience to tackle a renovation and are willing to pay a premium for warranty above everything else.
Buying used Axminster means much lower quality and no guarantee either, so not where my money would go.
A table saw is a single pallet shipment so 70-£100 for a carrier. You'd need the seller to bolt it to a pallet and cover it.
Alternatively, in a van, you need a couple of strong friends and some timber and you "roll" it into the back of a van so it ends up upside down. That way the weight which is all in the table and motor gear doesn't have to be lifted too far.
Third alternative is hire a luton with a 500kg rated tail lift and at the least some metal pipes for rollers. Hiring a Luton around me is a little dearer than a pallet delivery but gives you more control of the process and easier loading.

 

[mccpe]

I’d go for the Axminster saw. I’ve got a Sedgwick TA315, and it’s a very good machine, but I’m not convinced that it’s that much better than that Axminster. With the table extension you’ll be able to deal with sheet material easily, and the sliding fence will also be useful. I find the sliding fence on my Sedgwick is difficult to adjust and therefore don’t often use it. Also, spares from Sedgwick are very dear. Fortunately, there’s not too much that can go wrong with a table saw, and many parts (motors, bearings) are generic.

 

[Spectric]

What ever saw you end up buying you should read or re read this thread.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-trimmed-finger.145485/page-7#post-1702755

 

[tren]

What ever saw you end up buying you should read or re read this thread.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-trimmed-finger.145485/page-7#post-1702755

I know of the danger but that thread is disturbing.

I have had a basic table saw (evolution) for a few years now and only experience kick back once and it definitely made me re evaluate the way I was using it.

I would certainly need to revisit best practices before using a more powerful one

 

[sploo]

I'm in the process of slowly sorting my 275DS, I have a 3phase version running from VFD.
What may be the most annoying thing about it is the fence.
It may come loose all of a sudden, and I haven't got to the bottom of that.
Some others have mentioned this also.

The rear "claw" on the fence can be adjusted (with a grub screw, if I recall correctly). Might be working loose?

 

[Ttrees]

Not many folks suggesting true sliders, (carriage not beside, but right against the blade)
what's supposedly much better.

That's the only reason to go for something Far Eastern. (bearing in mind they likely won't be as hefty, and wouldn't be surprised if there was compromises)

Doesn't seem like that Axi saw has got anything to offer over the Sedgwick's,
and you should be able get a nice used 315 for much less than that.
I'd say around 750 with bells and whistles, is the going rate, and what isn't a "if yer lucky" price.

Gumtree aswell I presume your looking at, and the keywords table saw, tablesaw, circular saw bench, aswell as wood/working machines/machinery, workshop , etc.
You'll likely find something in all searches if looking for one of those.

There's plenty of stuff in the archives to read, as it seems you've in the high risk category,
just like in the thread linked above, rushing for Christmas.
(a common theme, often found in the month of February aswell)

The very mention of ASAP, and new to tablesaws, is a recipe for disaster.
Hope you are going to make at least 450mm long push sticks, which you will have in each hand,
as per the recommendations you will see if you look.

Just saying as it's very upsetting to see these things happening, when all the information
is accessible.
So there's a challenge for ya, since your likewise, in a rush,
i.e like around a dozen threads with a dozen pages within, cuz you can't be too careful.

Not got the time....the question is posed from an old quote...

Is the job at hand of more importance, than the hand doing the job?


Keep away from anything but this UK forum, or "the other place" in the UK, where there is a
"machines and power toolery" section.

Don't mean to be unfriendly, but what do ya expect posting a tablesaw recommendation
thread after a serious incident.
It's difficult to express my sympathies in any other way, but to warn others.

If too lazy to go through the archives, then perhaps get a big bandsaw instead,
something with 500 to 600mm(ish)wheels.

If doing trench cuts, then it's suggested there are safer ways,
but if needing to do so on the TS, then Shaw guards as per Roy Sutton's video on YT.
That would be a start, but by no means a complete tutorial whatsoever,
perhaps some of Steve Maskery's videos might highlight some further tips,
but you really need read the archives.


Good luck,
which is different to all the best, but all the best also.

Tom

 

[sploo]

Hi all,

I am looking for a a good solid table saw for my workshop.

We have recently moved into an old farm in the south west and am doing all the renovation myself. One of the first wood job I need to do is replacing lots of casement and sash windows but ultimately a lot bigger jobs (stairs, beams, rafters and eventually furniture).

I have plenty of space for my workshop/tools as we have empty barns so I don't mind going with something solid like a cast iron as I have no reason/need to move it. I don't want to spend too much as we have a lot of work and materials to pay for ahead of us.

I have done some research and noticed that second hand startite comes up a lot. I had a look online but not really sure what I am after in terms of model, condition and price.

I would be grateful for some helpt and be pointed in the right direction and/or anyone knows of one for sale?

Thanks!

The 175 and 275 are great saws. The version with the sliding table is even better, but tends to command a premium unless you get really lucky.

They'll run with 3 phase 3hp motor from a standard mains socket if you use a VFD (and the VFD also allows you to program a ramp up/ramp down time of a couple of seconds; so it's really smooth to start).

Stripping one down should only take a couple of days, and replacing the spindle bearings is a fairly simple job.

 

[Ttrees]

The rear "claw" on the fence can be adjusted (with a grub screw, if I recall correctly). Might be working loose?

I don't think the grub screw is the issue, as it's not very loose to adjust.
I'm missing a bolt on the rail, so that might be the issue, the mounting pad between table apron
and rail slides freely, perhaps it needs a shim, as it likely made the rail more problematic,
since there's no other reason for that imperial bolt to be removed.

I'll surely be trying to get to the bottom of that obviously, and likely making a thread about it.
Currently doing a big job working on the machine, partially dismantled and it won't be getting a new power cable until everything is complete. (should I hopefully be able get H07RN-F stuff local)
Lots of work to do to the machine before I get there though, base work, outfeed, overhead guard,
table extension shenanigans, and only then devote full energy into the fence
with all of it's shortcomings, before ever getting plugged in.

And I thought I had came to a sorta stalemate in regards to learning about welding, ROFL.

Tom




Tom