Hello from Felder

[jasonB]

Corset, yes are just strips with a Tee section that screw to the bottom of a board to become a sub table that you rest your bit of waney edge board on and then slide the lot along the short table.

Carlow, the machines all come with blade guides (think you mean riving knives) but if you look closely you will see that the "accesories" are all different thicknesses to suit blades with different kerfs. How many times is it said on here "make a new riving knife" if using a different kerf blade, a pro shop can't be wasting time doing that so just buy a suitable rioving knife. Same with the crown guards, they are also there as spares.

Jason

 

[jeffinfrance]

i'm with moz on this one.

there is a survival guide available.....written by a felder owner in america more frustrated than us......costs over £90. personally i think that should be supplied by felder. at no cost!

i know if you want to service your own car, you buy a haynes manual, but generally your new car will arrive properly set up in the first place.

personally, i think the problems we are experiencing are down to the drive for cheaper not better products. there is no reason why a combination machine cannot be made with a one piece chassis, or a two piece with more ridgid fixing. use thicker sheet steel and cast iron tops. would that really increase the price that much??? as for the aluminium slider, i think it outrageous that the 250mm on both extremeties are practically unusable for precision work without a statement to this effect. a 2.5m table shaould be sold as a 2m.

granted, a steel or even cast iron slider would increase the fabrication costs significantly, but more than 50%? i think not.

i have seen a few pre war machines over here still working as they should. i doubt my felder will still be in my shop in 25 years!

shame.

jeff

 

[ProShop]

You don't have to agree but telling me to go and look for it is downright rude. Austrian accountancy mentality can be as stupid as your description

Hey, calm down I wasn't being rude or stupid :twisted: :evil: :evil: all I said the info is out there for anyone to use.

Felder like lots of other companies around the world make money out of the things I mentioned (that aint stupid, it's the way the world of business works, that doesn't mean to say that it's good or efficient.)

You mention a copy of some manual from N Woods, I take it this is from some time ago. FWIW the new manuals with the latest models (2yrs +) are a big improvement on the previous ones which were rather poor for anyone who likes to do their own maintenance etc.

 

[jeffinfrance]

the manuals are poor now.

absolutely nothing on adjusting settings and poor translation for operations.

it would be beneficial to recieve also the technicians set up forms (for checking set up). still waiting for my english ones as my german is not up to speed.

jeff

 

[moz]

You don't have to agree but telling me to go and look for it is downright rude. Austrian accountancy mentality can be as stupid as your description

Hey, calm down I wasn't being rude or stupid :twisted: :evil: :evil: all I said the info is out there for anyone to use.

Felder like lots of other companies around the world make money out of the things I mentioned (that aint stupid, it's the way the world of business works, that doesn't mean to say that it's good or efficient.)

You mention a copy of some manual from N Woods, I take it this is from some time ago. FWIW the new manuals with the latest models (2yrs +) are a big improvement on the previous ones which were rather poor for anyone who likes to do their own maintenance etc.

Fair enough, but I wasn't saying you were stupid, just that your description of myopic business attitudes was perhaps a little harsh even for Felder though I'm not so sure.

I've dealt with them for over ten years, though my latest machine is around 3 years old (Norman was probably semi retired at that stage). All I'm really saying is that, if I owned Felder, I would want customers to be left with the best possible impression of my products. This isn't happening because a lot of excellent design and advanced manufacturing technology is so frequently p****d up the wall through lack of attention to detail at the end of the process. This is the reputation they have earned. That isn't the fault of people who don't want to pay £90.00 for a third party survival guide. It's their own fault. They just need to help customers to help themselves more. It is pro woodworkers who are losing money while they are being put through the oh so familiar mill of the post purchase Felder experience and many don't want a repeat of that. Anybody who has been through it knows what I'm talking about. Hell, even the engineers who commission these machines seem clueless about certain aspects so that would be a good place to start. I remember years ago when they got a good deal from a transport firm, sacked the excellent firm they had been using, then had a dozen machines wrecked because they were useless. This is what you are up against.

John

John

 

[jeffinfrance]

you should have seen how mine was delivered john.

perfect delivery on flatbed with tail lift to the local dealer, then unpacked in toulouse and squeed into a 2.5m panel van. the sliding table was wedged in between the machine and van side. the incompetent even arrived with no means of getting it out and into my workshop.

three hours and much machine twisting later and he throws the bits together, cuts one bit of timber and says its set up.

500 quid commission fee for that!

after a full day visit from another technician it was decided to replace the slider.

after he spent another full day trying to get that right, he left admitting he couldn't do it.

it took sending a video of a properly set up slider from the FOG to austria before i got another visit. this one arrived with some proper measuring tools and cracked it. still took him all day to sort the original delivery damage and i still have a 2500 euro slider taking up space in my shop.

credit to felder, they did the business, but it took 6 months!!!! and they wasted a hell of a lot of money.

money that should have been spent (and recouped) providing a better machine and initial setup.

i would have paid more for a once in a lifetime purchase, i'm not so sure thats what i made.

jeff

 

[katellwood]

FWIW

I have a 1986 vintage Felder BF5 combi which I swear by. One thing I have noticed between mine and the more modern ones is the fact that the base frame supports the whole machine and is not just two machines bolted together, which as far as I can see the modern felder combi's appear to be. in addition the frame is cast iron and not pressed steel, does this assist in maintaining rigidity?

Finally my wheel kit consists of two wheels at the planer end which are height adjustable and a single steering wheel at the sliding table end which is utilised by pumping up a small hydraulic bottle jack. when lowered the frame casting ends up resting on two strategically placed strips of timber and not the wheels

I would be interested to here from anyone who previously owned a machine similar to mine and who has upgraded to the more modern felder and can give an objective view/comparison on both as it is my ambition when I finally retire to upgrade as I would like a longer sliding table.

Happy to supply pics of my current combi if anyone is interested

 

[jeffinfrance]

well it would appear that all the improvements you could make for mine, were taken off yours.

what a sad world we live in

 

[beech1948]

As a long time Felder owner I have watched this thread with interest. My conclusions are as follows about modern Felder:-

1) Customer service no longer places the customer first

2) Felder employed staff are OK and knowledgeable but the use of distributors who obviously don't care about the quality, set-up and maintenance of Felder machines is a major worry. Felder should MANDATE the quality and performance of their distributors and installers and enforce it.

3) Manuals covering set-up and set-up techniques should be available. Its doesn't matter that Felder make money from these things only that the customer is satisfied.

4) Felder should provide a set-up sign off sheet with all details about how and to what tolerances the machine is set-up.

get with it Felder or become just another pretender to quality.

regards
Alan

 

[moz]

I had a BF6-31 which was the one after yours katellwood. That was a bit of a classic, sold in huge numbers and was a superb machine. It was a one piece chassis - mine came through a standard doorway on its side - that was fun. The mobility kit sounds similar but with a cam-action, wheeled jack which worked perfectly. This was set up in smart order by a sub-contracted, very knowledgable engineer and he did a fantastic job. Tony was his name. It never needed any further attention other than the sort of small occasional checks you need with regular use. Shortly after, they got rid of him, around the time Felder took over from Sanlin in the UK, presumably because he was - all together now - "too expensive"! There were quite a few other problems though, mainly a damaged slider due to incorrect packing. The wan**r, sorry, salesman who I had been dealing with didn't even bother to return my numerous calls and letters. A stiff letter to Austria resulted in appropriate feeling of arses and it was replaced pretty pronto after that. In answer to your specific question, I can say that the BF6-31 was moved continually without problem. Even moving it to my new workshop didn't upset it. This was a pressed steel chassis, fairly thick. I can't comment on how my current one would fair because I don't move it. It's difficult to say whether it should fair any worse since it seems to be of similar construction albeit much larger. The catalogue of problems with this one were only partially resolved by another letter to the top. Jeff seems to have found the same solution. Get the senior management do the arse kicking for you. I do agree though that they eventually come good and seem happy to spend hours and hours trying to remedy problems. Which is all the more puzzling, as you see their profit disappearing down a big hole. Through their efforts and mine, I now have a superbly accurate machine which gives me very quick results so don't necessarily be put off. I think it's just fair to say that you have to budget for an awful lot of extra time to get things sorted.

Jeff, I'm surprised you say your slider is still no use at either end. I managed to get mine well within spec all over. I did think that the extrusion was supposed to be ground after extruding but, having said that, mine isn't totally flat. I wonder whether there is a large manufacturing discrepancy and some are better than others. Just speculating. Other than that, if the slider isn't to blame, it just hasn't been set up properly. I have found it best to level the front part of the slider to the spindle end of the iron, and the back part of the slider to the saw end of the iron, using the outside set of bolts. Then, bring up the middle set of bolts making sure to preserve the clearance you obtained previously. If you do this, I can't see how it will not be acceptable in all positions. You should be able to use all of the table for all functions otherwise it really isn't good enough in my opinion. PM me if you think I can help.

John

 

[moz]

Alan, sorry I've written acres about this already but just wanted to say I agree with all you have said. I strongly recall an article in the Woodworker in 1987 where a working furniture maker reviewed his Felder (probably the same model as katellwood). The thing which was most impressive was the total commitment of the company. On one occasion, he asked whether they though some particular setting was acceptable, not being sure himself whether it was within spec although working adequately. They were so appalled at the apparently miniscule discrepancy that they flew an engineer from Austria just to make sure the thing was singing absolutely perfectly.

John

 

[ProShop]

4) Felder should provide a set-up sign off sheet with all details about how and to what tolerances the machine is set-up.
regards
Alan

My last machine (last year) did have a sign off sheet with the settings recorded on it, marked against the factory tolerances.


I'm personally not to bothered about setting up details etc as I've spent the last 20 odd years doing just that. Setting woodworking machines up, I'm fortunate in that I have all the dial gauges, Polish squares, Moore & Wright & Starrett A grade straight edges etc etc. But I can see why customers who are mechanically minded want to tweak their machines and want some info. But then sometimes from a company point of view a little knowledge can be...............

Having been on the wrong end of Felders customer care on more than one occasion I can see the frustrations that the posters on this thread have.

 

[jeffinfrance]

hi john,

the ends of the slider dip down due the tensioner keeping the slider straight. apparantly according to the FOG this is just as it is. the dip is only a thou or two, but that obviously makes a difference to precision work, moulding shoulders and the like. not a huge problem cos i have a 2.5m slider so there's still plenty of table to use for that, just means i have to move the extension table a bit, cos i can't clamp anything to the extreme ends.

i'm quite confident that the slider is now adjusted to within my (tighter than felders) tolerances. but i wont know for sure till i properly test the machine next week. the technician did say however, that he would be more than happy to come back and tweak it further if necessary and also after i leveling compound the shop floor. thats gonna be a pain in the proverbial!

still wish i'd made my shop a bit bigger and put in seperates. c'est la vie!

hopefully i can put the felder to bed now and concentrate on the next purchases, drill press and bigger bandsaw.

jeff

 

[jasonB]

Jeff if you are going to use leveling compound make sure its a strong one, a lot of these won't take a point loading so you may find things dig in or the weight will cause the machines feet to settle over a few days leaving indentations.

I had a couple of jobs where workshop floors mave had to be leveled to tight tollerances and used epoxy mortars to do it. These were MOT bays in garages which have to be to a certain spec for checking headlight alignment etc and will also get abused by jacks etc. I got the epoxy from Watco

On and I think I'd be happy with 1 -2 thou over a 2.5m slider, expect the timber will move more than that overnight.

Jason

 

[jeffinfrance]

thanks for the tip jason. thankfully, the jobs i have on to take me to christmas, don't need stuff longer than 2.7m, so no need to move the beast. resurfacing can be next years job.

i'm a lot happier with the machine now....a couple of thou drop off at each extremity i can live with, but as i said the centre 2m of slider appears to be pretty spot on to within a tenth of a millimetre.

the tru test will come tounge and grooving 125 linear metres of lipping i have lined up in a couple of weeks.

now the compensation negotiations begin!

all the best,

jeff

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Alan,
Welcome.


The last time I saw a Felder combination machine demonstrated was at a show some fifteen years back. I was mightily tempted, but sadly I don't have sufficient space for the big machine I wanted.

But again, welcome!

Regards
John