Hello from Felder

[Corset]

Just like to say I have a hammer Saw spindle moulder and I am very happy with it. It fits my garage very nicely and I don't have many complaints except that the rip fence is a bit temperamental. I would recommend them to anyone and I think they are good value. I move mine a fair bit and it seems ok but maybe I have lower expectations of accuracy.
That said my experience with felder has been a bit odd. I get a ring every couple of months or so to see if I want to buy anything which is nice I guess but I am always a bit confused as to why the postage is so expensive for items. I am after a couple of dust extraction bits but I am reluctant to order from felder as I know the price will be ok but then the postage will double it. Plus when I have ordered stuff it takes a looong time to arrive.
Plus some of the extras are really confusing on the website i really want to know what this does
https://shop.felder-gruppe.at/fgroup/shop_category.php?region=gb-en&real_shop_cuid=221 that is hammer trimming equipment and looks like some big plastic strips. It may be just what I need but i cannot tell from the site. I can only guess at what else I missing out on.
I welcome any comments from felder on that as surely that would be a simple thing to look at. We have just changed couriers at work and that has made a lot of difference to cost.

 

[ProShop]

why do your combination machines not come with a warning that they are notoriously difficult to set up and not reccomended for professional shops where separates would be much more useful.

welcome to the forum.

jeff

Why would a combi machine not be recommended for a professional shop, Robert Inghams had one for years and He's a perfectionist.
And why should they come with a warning they are difficult to set up. I had one and had no trouble setting mine up.

My issue with Felder is their crap customer service and inability to keep decent staff for any reasonable length of time.

 

[custard]

jeff[/quote]Why would a combi machine not be recommended for a professional shop, Robert Inghams had one for years and He's a perfectionist.
And why should they come with a warning they are difficult to set up. I had one and had no trouble setting mine up.

My issue with Felder is their crap customer service and inability to keep decent staff for any reasonable length of time.[/quote]

Looking at Robert Ingham's workshop I doubt he has to move his Felder, and that's one of the issues here, will their combinations retain accuracy after moving? I asked earlier if Felder have any guidelines for how level a floor needs to be, but no answer.

 

[moz]

Hi Custard,

No I don't have to move mine around so can't comment on that though I did used to have a BF6-31 with mobility kit which was moved constantly without problems. That was a different machine of course with a one piece chassis. It could explain why there seems to be a lot of problems setting up after most of it should have been done at the factory. I certainly wouldn't risk moving mine now I have it working well.

John

 

[Corset]

Have we made him run away?? :?

 

[9fingers]

I would think you possibly have :lol:

My background is in metal working machinery and you certainly would not dream of moving a machine and not running a rule over it to see if it needed setting up after.

With modern sheet metal fabricated chassis and thin cast iron tables it is no surprise to me that adjustments are necessary.

Bob

 

[ProShop]

jeff

Why would a combi machine not be recommended for a professional shop, Robert Inghams had one for years and He's a perfectionist.
And why should they come with a warning they are difficult to set up. I had one and had no trouble setting mine up.

My issue with Felder is their crap customer service and inability to keep decent staff for any reasonable length of time.

Looking at Robert Ingham's workshop I doubt he has to move his Felder, and that's one of the issues here, will their combinations retain accuracy after moving? I asked earlier if Felder have any guidelines for how level a floor needs to be, but no answer.

I had mine for over 2 years and used on an ordinary concrete garage floor with out any problems. It's new owner has had it for nearly 3 years now and says it still as accurate as when it was delivered (and he is very very fussy).

FWIW, the spec Felder set for their machines has changed in the last couple of years or so and the tolerances etc are not as good as they used to be, nor is the installation spec as keen as it was.

I know a couple of other combi owners with the Felder wheel kits and they use them on an ordinary concrete floor without any issues.

You said in your post that the machine was not suitable for a professional workshop, but it clearly is imho.

 

[Whitesnake]

Hi guys

Sorry for the delay.

Jeff: Sorry to hear about your problem. Clearly I cannot comment on what has been done/said as I do not know the full history of your dealings with Felder France. I appreciate this has been an ongoing problem for you and my only comment would be that it seems to be an isolated issue. In my short time at Felder I have not had or heard of similar problems. They are precision machines that have been designed with moving them in mind which is why there is wheel kits available. As far as a perfectly level floor goes, I was not told this was the case in the training at the factory and after discussing it with the technicians, they also do not feel this is necessary. Clearly a level surface is needed but to what extent I cannot say. As you say, your machine was twisted and again this is a rarity

The felder combi machines are professional quality and are sold into many business that depend on the machine for the accuracy and ease of use. They clearly offer a benefit in space saving over separates but will never replace them fully. I personally have sold combis to people that are very happy with them and some are on here saying so.

I can only apologise on behalf of Felder and hope that this is sorted for you

 

[Corset]

Postage?? I would like to order some stuff any chance of a deal??

 

[moz]

Hi Dave and welcome.

Just an observation that I'm sure has already been made many times. I do think its reasonable for you to have a list of specs allowing for reasonable tolerances. The result of not doing this would be, of course, many new owners standing over the engineer expecting everything to be adjusted within a thou or less. I expect your engineers often hear unreasonable expectations which cannot be met within even a generous timescale allowed for commissioning (which isn't allowed for in my experience). However, you will find that most owners, myself included, are willing to put in the extra time to go well beyond factory tolerances. This job is made difficult by the fact that Felder omit a huge amount of such information from the manual and do not make it available in any other form. This leaves a network of enthusiasts on the owner's group, for example, left to help each other, figuring much of it out for themselves. Often, we are left in a position where the information isn't available to do the job ourselves and yet Felder are unable to resolve things within a reasonable time either. I'm sure both Jeff and myself would have been working effectively much more quickly if given the tools to at least analyse and possibly fix some problems saving everyone time. Felder make some great products but this is yet another example of the stubborn and senseless intransigence of the Austrian owners. What is the problem with giving us the information?

John

 

[Tim Nott]

The distortion when moving the thing around on a less- than-perfect floor seems a gross manufactuting/design flaw. We've got a Robland combi - no room for separates - and we use it full time and move it around a lot without problems

 

[ProShop]

Felder make some great products but this is yet another example of the stubborn and senseless intransigence of the Austrian owners. What is the problem with giving us the information?

John

The info is out there, just go and get it.

 

[ondablade]

Seems to me that there's a big difference between inaccuracies as a result of moving a machine on a not so level floor, and manufacturing and/or factory set up errors.

TBH I doubt there's a machine made that IF the need is precise set up will stay in adjustment when moved on a non level floor.

It's also very much a matter of the size of the machine, and in particular of the length of the slider.

On the first - it's not just a case of 'beefing up'. This will add weight which will increase the tendency to twist/distort almost as fast as it adds stiffness.

On the second - it's one thing moving a cabinet saw around the place and not experiencing problems, but realistically i don't know how a 2.5 or 3m long sliding table saw can be expected to be stiff enough to stay flat enough to hold tight tolerances on an out of flat floor.

Finally as before on service. It's not cheap to fly technicians around Europe, and put them up in hotels. So as before it's not too surprising that the Felder/Hammer strategy is to try to set it up right at factory, and to after that be slow to respond.

The money and the margins are simply not in machines at that sort of money to support high on site FOC service levels.

Hopefully they are getting it right in the factory, because they do trade heavily on their reputation for precision.

Another thought. I doubt they would do it because it wouldn't be well received, and would be hard to administer, but actually it wouldn't in principle be unreasonable to to bill the customer for site visits to rectify problems caused by out of flat floors etc - while not charging for rectification of factory induced problems.

That's provided as has been said that the manual is clear on the subject - there's probably a very strong argument too for a much more comprehensively written manual.

Anyway. Just a personal view.

A final thought. Depending on how much moving is needed maybe there's no need to have a totally accurate floor. I wonder would it be possible to just arrange for four or whatever number of carefully levelled (or even adjustable) pads would be needed for the feet at maybe two locations in the shop? Then drop the machine on the second spot when needed. I still doubt they could be got level enough to permit moving a big machine without throwing it out a bit, mind you....

 

[jasonB]

Plus some of the extras are really confusing on the website i really want to know what this does
https://shop.felder-gruppe.at/fgroup/shop_category.php?region=gb-en&real_shop_cuid=221 that is hammer trimming equipment and looks like some big plastic strips.

Its used to allow straightening of long boards if you don't have the long sliding table. Have a look at the C3-31 video about 3.45 in

http://www.ukhammer.co.uk/gb-en/video/hammer-c3-31.html

I've had a combi for about 12yrs and regularly move it about and don't have setup problems after moving it, just on a screeded floor.

Jason

 

[moz]

Felder make some great products but this is yet another example of the stubborn and senseless intransigence of the Austrian owners. What is the problem with giving us the information?

John

The info is out there, just go and get it.

My question was for Dave but thanks for trying to help.

John

 

[ProShop]

I really can't see why Felder should give out the info your suggesting, after all they're in the market to sell, service, maintain, install the machines they manufacture.

Lots of other companies don't produce this info either, and why should they.

Like I said the info is out there for anyone who wants to do it themselves.

I agree with your other point about slow response, as I've mentioned before customer service is poor to say the least.

 

[Corset]

Nope, I am dense its official! still don't get what the plastic bit does?
Is it a like a jig strip to screw into. That would have been handy as i just made some jigs to fit in the slot and would have saved me some hassle.
Owen

 

[Carlow52]

Just to say how irritating it is to have to fill out a registration form before they show you a price list.

Every page has a link re price list

but then you have to register.

The other scary thing is that blade guides are seen as important accessories

 

[Corset]

As a side note does anyone know if the german guys hair is real or a hair piece. Its brill :lol:

 

[moz]

I really can't see why Felder should give out the info your suggesting, after all they're in the market to sell, service, maintain, install the machines they manufacture.

Lots of other companies don't produce this info either, and why should they.

Like I said the info is out there for anyone who wants to do it themselves.

I agree with your other point about slow response, as I've mentioned before customer service is poor to say the least.

Actually, I was appealing to Dave for a more detailed manual, not asking for egg-sucking lessons. Obviously, I have indeed found information from the internet and by experimentation to be in the position I now am. Is it reasonable to have to resort to these methods having spent enough to buy a new car? The reason I am asking is because they neither provide a good enough service in many ways to satisfy some customers nor provide the information for them to do it themselves. As an example, I discovered the casting supporting the rip-fence to be convex, throwing out the aluminium extrusion when tightened. I reported this to Felder who, helpful as always, sent a replacement. This was no different which prompted further investigation which revealed an adjusting screw to adjust out the flex. There is no mention of this in the manual nor was it checked on any of the numerous remedial visits nor did it occur to the service manager who arranged for a replacement. The answer to your question, why should they?, it ought to be clear that an awful lot of everyone's (including Felder) time and money is wasted chasing around fixing things and it would take much of the pressure off by empowering owners much more than they already do. I am not sure that even the Austrian accountancy mentality can be as stupid as your description, i.e. hoping to wring some more money out of owners on the servicing front, because most of these problems are teething issues which tend to be resolved well within the warranty period so it is costing them a fortune. My own manual was in German, supplemented by a photocopy of the English version of the previous model posted to me by Norman Woods who seemed appalled himself that no greater effort had been made. All I am asking for is a more comprehensive manual which would benefit everyone all round. You don't have to agree but telling me to go and look for it is downright rude.

John