Have I picked the wrong hobby?

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Garno":1d0lpvka said:
.........Is that groove done using just the knife or is it a combination of knife and chisel?.......

It's a combination of the two. The actual line is done with the knife. The waste up to the line is removed with a chisel (and mallet). It's not difficult, but there is a bit of a knack to getting the waste out. If it is a really big and in-your-face cut like this one, I have two goes with the knife & chisel combo, making quite a deep slot so the saw has no chance to jump out.
 
I like using a single bevel knives, as I can mark the line very lightly, just enough that will register the knife again, swap the square around and use the other knife for keeping the bevel to the waste side as it will give a better result.
A single spearpoint knife would eliminate the use of two, the Crown ones from Axi were only a fiver each though.
Might be a bit overkill but a good example and practice of countering the bevel side of a tool pushing/wedging the opposite face of the tool past the line.

One thing that might be throwing you off is if the stock isin't perfectly parallel.
I find a plain vernier calipers to be quick for this, but you can do the same with a panel gauge.
 
Andy Kev.":1vxeci7h said:
Garno,

here's one take on doing a halving joint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkFrS7Ah5GY

It's worth a watch because it shows that the sawing need not be the critical part of the work.

I just watched this same clip about a minute before I Logged in and followed your link :D :D :D
I know now that without a doubt I have been marking up wrong, It's one of those things that we think we are doing it the right way until we see the right way being done

Thank you for the link.
 
Lots of good advice about sawing. I won't add to it.

But I wanted to encourage you by saying that the skill comes with practice. I was rubbish at sawing straight lines when I started, I'm generally pretty good now. But that's quite a few hours of sawing.

And dovetails?? Easy if you've done lots of them and regularly do lots to keep in practice, or so I'm told. But I don't.

So although I can make something as precise as this:

Koa and ash uke.jpeg
Uke back in shellac.jpeg


(for scale, the whole instrument is around 20 inches long)

I still cut some of the world's most horrid dovetails. And furniture makers look at my instruments and wonder how I manage it, while I do the same looking at their chairs.

If you stick at it, you will get better! But only at the things you do regularly.
 

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profchris":2amgpu25 said:
Lots of good advice about sawing. I won't add to it.

But I wanted to encourage you by saying that the skill comes with practice. I was rubbish at sawing straight lines when I started, I'm generally pretty good now. But that's quite a few hours of sawing.

And dovetails?? Easy if you've done lots of them and regularly do lots to keep in practice, or so I'm told. But I don't.

So although I can make something as precise as this:



(for scale, the whole instrument is around 20 inches long)

I still cut some of the world's most horrid dovetails. And furniture makers look at my instruments and wonder how I manage it, while I do the same looking at their chairs.

If you stick at it, you will get better! But only at the things you do regularly.

That is a beautiful bit of craftsmanship and looks as though a lot of skills went into making it.
thank you for sharing
 
profchris":d9ep6sfe said:
If you stick at it, you will get better! But only at the things you do regularly.

By better I assume faster, as its methodology over talent first that will triumph,
Like Klausz's auld buck said, do it well then do it faster.

I think your comment applies to more of an intermediates goal rather than someone who has to
learn techniques from the beginning.

Kinda like the word skill can be perceived to either mean talent or methodology practised.
That's why I suggested the folks videos that I would regard as being a more foolproof foundation
for fine work.
I see plenty of things from other folks that would have a knock on effect down the road.

Take the best bits from the best, and raise an eyebrow for the rest.
Good luck
Tom
 
I think people tend to underestimate how accurate you can be with a pencil. I use a 2H that is always well sharpened, and produces a line thinner than a 0.5mm mechanical pencil. As long you cut on the right side of the line, I think you'd need a magnifying glass to notice any difference between it and a knife line (a knife line only being as thin as it's bevels remember).

Having said that, the knife really wins out when you want to return to a previous location, such as dropping the chisel into the knife line on your last pass, where you're only moving a little material. Or dropping your knife into a knife line to butt up a square to a previous cut line. And then also the knife wall that MikeG showed, which allows you to drop your saw in to a channel, avoiding that annoying jitter when you're trying to start a cut. What I really like about the knife wall is that after you've made the cut with your saw, you can clearly see the difference between the areas that were cut with the knife (clean) and the areas cut with the saw (fuzzy). The fuzzy areas generally stick out a little further than the knife line, as your saw is never perfectly 90 (at least for me), so you can easily remove that bit of fuzz with a chisel, using the clean cut area of the knife as your reference.

The one thing to watch out for with knives is that it is all to easy to accidently follow the grain, rather than the edge you were trying to butt up against. I generally prefer a pencil here. Once it has drifted, you can't really correct it as you'll most likely end up widening the line. Remember, the first pass needs to be very light, the second a little heavier, and then after that you're usually good for going as heavy as you like.
 
transatlantic":25lcrlh8 said:
......The one thing to watch out for with knives is that it is all to easy to accidently follow the grain, rather than the edge you were trying to butt up against......

When marking along the grain I would almost always just make a mark with the point of the knife then set a marking gauge to that mark and use that.
 
Also a fan of the pencil - it depends on how you're using it and why.

What makes me a big fan of it (especially for something like dovetails) is that the joint really isn't that precise (I know people won't like that, but if you've been cutting them for a while - especially in complex glue ups or narrow drawers, it's not that precise of a joint) and you can more easily mark it often with a pencil.

For other cases, it's quite nice (edges of chamfers or other moulding joints) because it doesn't penetrate into the wood and you can remove it with a single smoothing plane pass. I can't imagine what an unwanted knife line would look like filled with oil or finish.

It's less about the thickness of the pencil line and more about the precision of the point at getting next to the marking tool or other part referenced. It takes only a look to see whether or not there's a gap.
 
I have taken the plunge and talked Mrs G into buying me a marking knife from Axminster,

She said I could have my pick..... the foolish woman :D
So I ordered this one https://www.axminster.co.uk/japanese-ve ... ife-384008 well she did say I could choose :shock:

Looking around this seems to be the one with the highest user ratings on a variety of sites.
What part of the blade runs along the square to mark the wood? Does the back of the blade or the bevelled part run along the straight edge?

This thread has absolutely convinced me that I needed a marking knife and I am hoping for the price it will get lots of use and become a regular used tool.
 
Garno":180ghhpa said:
What part of the blade runs along the square to mark the wood? Does the back of the blade or the bevelled part run along the straight edge?

The flat part (the back) runs along your reference surface (your square). Its got two bevels so you can run it on the left or the right of your reference.


Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
 
A thing to note on using a marking knife with a traditional carpenters square with a thin blade is to be very careful that the knife doesn't jump out of the cut and into your hand!
These unbranded workshop squares actually come from Soba are very accurate and come in a well packaged heavy cardboard box have a nice chunky blade for the job.
Probably the best value tool in the shop, I bought the 150mm one for £10.56 and use it all the time now.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-w ... es-ax23310
Probably too late now, but just thought to mention the other thing.

All the best
Tom
 
Lol. :D
Ps. Btw. The hammer is a specialist acorn carving mallet based after the traditional Austrian acorn carving pre-wwar1 movement. It famously died out after ww1 because all the acorns were used for ersatz coffee leading to a Europe wide lack of carving materials.
 
That was a fantastic gift of you BM, I thought it was a plane iron hammer
 
Droogs":3mxcsdu0 said:
That was a fantastic gift of you BM, I thought it was a plane iron hammer

The images I posted really do not do the gift justice, They have a lovely weight and a wonderful feel to them the quality really is top notch.

I have never owned a marking knife nor a acorn smasher, LOOK OUT ACORNS :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 
Errrmm...

*looking sheepish*
That was a bit of a tongue in cheek joke tbh. Pretty sure it's a plane hammer too!
:oops:
I certainly didn't make it!
Sorry! Just my stupid sense of humour....
:-"
 

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