Have a look at this Jacob!

[Jacob]

@ Corneel: Not everyone does. I can grip some tools and others are impossible ....

I use blade holders sometimes - basically a bit of 2"x1" with a saw kerf for the blade. All sorts of variations are possible including shaping the handle for comfort/grip. On one I fastened a wooden door knob. They help with small blades, but also with big ones as you can put more pressure on without cramping your fingers tight.

 

[Eric The Viking]

@ Corneel: Not everyone does. I can grip some tools and others are impossible (my hands are deformed).



E.

Eric, that's a completely different situation. I feel for you and apologise if my posting was in any way confrontational for you.

I didn't take it like that at all - no apology needed.

It's just there was a consensus emerging of 'expensive rubbish' when actually it's quite an elegant idea, albeit pricey. Drawknives are more than a bit awkward - you can't easily even use a kitchen steel because of the handles (although that's the wrong kind of 'sharp' anyway).

You get the angles consistently, there's no setup time, and it's safer. Apart from price, that ticks all the boxes for me! Point being that I'm not too proud to know that I'm often safer or better off with a jig than freehand.

E.

 

[PAC1]

Jacob
Just to be clear you use something you have made to help hold a blade whilst sharpening?
Could we call it a JIG

 

[Jacob]

Jacob
Just to be clear you use something you have made to help hold a blade whilst sharpening?
Could we call it a JIG

Feel free to call it what you like but they are generally referred to as blade "holders" *. The idea is to make the blade easier to hold.
Oddly enough jigs proper don't do this - they don't actually have handles and aren't easy to hold. This always strikes me as an amazingly ludicrous omission - a bit like having a plane with no handles. Blade holding devices which are difficult to hold. :roll:

*They appear in the old books but not the new. Too simple and obvious I guess.

 

[n0legs]

This is my spoon. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My spoon is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my spoon is useless. Without my spoon, I am useless. I must stir my spoon true. I must stir faster than my enemy, who is trying to out-stir me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my spoon and myself are makers of my coffee, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviours of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.

 

[bugbear]

Jacob
Just to be clear you use something you have made to help hold a blade whilst sharpening?
Could we call it a JIG

Feel free to call it what you like but they are generally referred to as blade "holders" *. The idea is to make the blade easier to hold.
Oddly enough jigs proper don't do this - they don't actually have handles and aren't easy to hold. This always strikes me as an amazingly ludicrous omission - a bit like having a plane with no handles. Blade holding devices which are difficult to hold. :roll:

*They appear in the old books but not the new.

They appear in many books, both old and new.

BugBear

 

[KevM]

Good point, well made.

My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

 

[Cottonwood]

Any way, originally this thread was about a device to sharpen drawknives, why we have diversified into turning tools etc gawd knows alone. :roll:
Just out of interest,how many people own and more importantly use, a draw knife? (I did ask WoodBrains but got no reply).

Hello,

Yes I have and use a drawknife. Funnily enough, I said in some previous thread about how handy they were for taking the wane etc from the edge of rough sawn boards ( as suggested by another here) but got, yes you've guessed it, contradicted. Though funnily the idea seems to have got some favour here, but not when I suggested it. Are we spotting a trend of some sort.

Mike.

Oh fer gawds sake Mike loosen up. Next you'll want credit for inventing the damned thing (the draw knife) chill out mon.

 

[Carl P]

This is my spoon. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My spoon is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my spoon is useless. Without my spoon, I am useless. I must stir my spoon true. I must stir faster than my enemy, who is trying to out-stir me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my spoon and myself are makers of my coffee, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviours of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.

But are you a free as a bird stirrer, or is your world bound to the jiggly contraptions of stirring - come to that do you choose the true righteous righthand stir, or do you consort with devils and leftleaning deviants? I see from the picture that you choose coffee over tea, I think my question has been answered - God Help Us All!!!

PS When it comes to spoons I prefer woodies.

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[Tony Spear]

Good point, well made.

My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

The Bunnies don't even know that they're dead - until I pick them up! AND be careful with that sharp knife when you clean them out, 'cos if you penetrate the intestines, the smell can hang around for ages!

 

[woodbrains]

Any way, originally this thread was about a device to sharpen drawknives, why we have diversified into turning tools etc gawd knows alone. :roll:
Just out of interest,how many people own and more importantly use, a draw knife? (I did ask WoodBrains but got no reply).

Hello,

Yes I have and use a drawknife. Funnily enough, I said in some previous thread about how handy they were for taking the wane etc from the edge of rough sawn boards ( as suggested by another here) but got, yes you've guessed it, contradicted. Though funnily the idea seems to have got some favour here, but not when I suggested it. Are we spotting a trend of some sort.

Mike.

Oh fer gawds sake Mike loosen up. Next you'll want credit for inventing the damned thing (the draw knife) chill out mon.

So did you want an answer to the question, or not? I dunno how you want me to respond really, though I suspect you would prefer me not to post at all, since knowledge here is not well regarded. So well done, you've got what you wish for. Novices beware the misinformation; few of any note now remain.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

..... Novices beware the misinformation; few of any note now remain.

Mike.

Yes it has gone a bit quiet. Only 5900 views on this thread. Obviously everybody is losing interest. I wonder where they have all gone?

I think you need to relax a bit Mike and be less assertive and bad tempered about what you think you know and you think the rest of us don't.
Where did you pick up that thing about concave bevels and turning BTW?

 

[G S Haydon]

Just to say I'm enjoying the debate and I intned not to offend or upset anyone, if that does happen it is not intneded. If I go to far without thinking let me know.

As I'm wrting my next few articles on my blog about chisels I dusted off a few of the Old tools that my Great Granddad, Granddad and Dad used. I was interested to take a look at the mortice chisles too.

Hollow ground, but hardy noticable because it was done on a grind stone, normally always a grind wheel of large diameter. To be found even in north devonian father and son set ups and used for many years (as seen in my previous photo) Like most trades people no doubt he saw the benefit of this time proven system during his apprenticeship

http://i0.wp.com/gshaydon.co.uk/blog/wp ... enture.jpg

I think this I why I find it hard when some (this is not at all aimed at Jacob becuse he even says within an impulse purchase he found a variety of edges) more aimed at others that think history was written only with the convex bevels. This is not an agrument about what is best, that is down to the user. It is simply fact that in addtion to the examples show in books many did use the method described within them. Noboby can say otherwise although it seems some do to try to back up their poorly researched theories by saying that convex was "the dominant" way of doing things (that is not aimed at Jacob at all as I respect his skills and opinions)

 

[Jacob]

It's simple really - if anybody (including me) had access to a large wet wheel they would use it and you would see the result as above.
Conversely many of my randomly purchased old planes have signs of being ground with an angle grinder - not because this was their chosen method but because they didn't have much choice.
But I have to say I very rarely see nicely hollow ground edges like yours and I think the reason is obvious - there weren't many large wet grind wheels around. They weren't available for the majority of users.
Nicely hollow ground edges - I say "very rarely" - but in fact "never" is nearer the mark with the abandoned old planes I seem to acquire. They are all roughly convex bevelled, with one, two or more bevels. Chisels (and modern thin plane blades) similarly but there you can also find very neat convex bevels
On the other hand crudely hollow-ground (bench grindstone) crops up, but not that often.
My objection to the new sharpening is the strict orthodoxy and the insistence that freehand is nearly impossible and the need for a huge range of expensive kit. Which of course is where this thread kicked off, with a stupidly expensive unnecessary bit of kit completely alien to the whole spirit of the draw knife!

PS Personally I wouldn't be happy with small diameter hollow grinds as I think this could weaken the edge too much. I often see ground bevels which have been messily nibbled at with a small wheel in an attempt to flatten out the hollow.
But large is good - the larger you go the nearer you get to flat.

 

[bugbear]

Just picked up another box of tatty old tools (accidental ebay bid after a few pints). Includes several planes 4s and some woodies. Looking at edges of these and previous mistaken purchases (I'll count them later, must be 30 or so) it has to be said that there are all sorts of rough grinding of primary bevels followed by neater honed secondary bevels, also many distinctly convex over all.

That's exactly what I'd expect, and reflects my experience of s/h blades in a wide variety of contexts (car boot, dealers, auction, specialist auctions etc). I'm ignoring the totally wrecked edges that have been used on concrete or similar, of course.

We almost always see a primary bevel, ground with whatever coarse process is available, and a steeper secondary where the actual sharpening takes place. Working freehand, convexity tends to emerge, wether you like it or not, which is why the texts have their admonishments.

When the secondary bevel becomes too large/steep/rounded the coarse process is applied once more. Thus any blade will be somewhere from fresh-ground to about-to-be-ground.

The neatest bevels I've seen were in a complete tool chest sold at auction that once belonged to a pattern maker. His ability and precision obviously applied to his tools as well as his work, including some beautiful self-made tools.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

My objection to the new sharpening is the strict orthodoxy and the insistence that freehand is nearly impossible

Who are all these people who insist that freehand is nearly impossible? I've not come across them.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

My objection to the new sharpening is the strict orthodoxy and the insistence that freehand is nearly impossible

Who are all these people who insist that freehand is nearly impossible? I've not come across them.

someone like this?

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

My objection to the new sharpening is the strict orthodoxy and the insistence that freehand is nearly impossible

Who are all these people who insist that freehand is nearly impossible? I've not come across them.

someone like this?

BugBear

From the archive:

"Unless you happen to have an uncanny ability to judge and hold a desired angle freehand, some kind of assistance is definitely called for. BugBear"

 

[AndyT]

A few posts ago, BugBear agreed with Jacob and I felt a little flutter of hope that this thread might be allowed to end in peace...

 

[bugbear]

"Unless you happen to have an uncanny ability to judge and hold a desired angle freehand, some kind of assistance is definitely called for. BugBear"

Out of context quoting again? A quick search reveals that I said that when talking about back bevels, back in 2010 (!!). Here's the post, for anyone that cares.

post480986.html

BugBear