Has anyone converted a T/S to accept dado blades

[Karl]

I remember seeing Norm once using a dado head to cut a rabbet in a piece of 18mm ply. He passed his hand right over the blade. Made me cringe....

Surely woodworkers (or should I say amateur woodworkers - I can see how pro's might want to go the dado route) should be more interested in doing the job safely as opposed to quickly? How much use would an amateur get out of a dado set - ie how many hours saved in work time each year? I doubt the risk/benefit analysis would show it to be worthwhile.

Cheers

Karl

 

[andy king]

How much use would an amateur get out of a dado set - ie how many hours saved in work time each year?

Exactly. Norm may make a pass and get a perfect fit, but how long does it take to get the old blade out, dado kit in, make a pass only to find that your 3/4 ply is 1/32nd bigger than you thought, so you strip it down, shim it, re-cut...
Not the 20 second cut that Norm implies!
A router with a decent straight edge can do a very accurate job by simply making a two pass cut. Ideally, the clamp guide and sub base systems such as Trend make are a great way of making accurate, safe controlled cuts.

Andy

 

[devonwoody]

I was thinking I would have one saw with a dado blade on all the time and another saw with an 80t and a third with a rip blade.

Only kidding.

 

[Mike.C]

WHW wrote,

As for the H&S interference, it's enough to entice me back to Lexington.... although in the meantime I shall continue to use my dado set in my unbraked US made and imported Delta table saw.

Don't take this the wrong way, because it's your workshop and your business, so you can do what you want in it, but as your a pro, I am wondering what would happen insurance wise, if god forbid, you or one of your employees had an accident caused by the dado head cutters, or even a non brake assisted table saw. Would you still be insured if you were not following H&S rules and regulations?

Just a thought.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Bean]

Andy do not be fooled by a CE sticker, they are meaningless. You, me in fact anybody on this forum can affix a CE mark to a machine, you do not even have to keep a folder on the machine. The folder you have been shown at record will be the machine file which a machine builder has to keep. But to modify that equipment you do not have to keep a file although it is good practice to do so. Once the machine is modified it requires CE marking again but as said previously anybody can do it.
I did my CE marking training through an internationally recognised institution, it took all of 2 hours and most of that was a waste!
CE marking varies from country to country I have seen machines in Germany that would have ripped the arm off of an operator if he/she was not concentrating 250% and it was CE marked, as I said utterly worthless as a standard to rely on

 

[seaco]

When it comes to Dado heads in a table saws - use a dado only if your saw is built to take one.
I've read (with horror) the threads where people have tried to jam a dado onto a £99 Clarke table saw - don't do it.
In the right machine a dado is a quick, quiet and accurate tool.
Philly

I second what Philly has said, if the saw is made for a dado your fine we are always going to have disagreement on this subject but most of us will agree PLEASE DON'T convert a saw that's not meant for one, for your own safety.. :wink:

 

[andy king]

Hi Bean,

Was the training course you did applicable to the badging of certain machinery?
I was told from the horses mouth (The HSE oficer who is in charge of all the woodworking prosecutions and investigations) that you cannot self assess a table saw or other high risk machines such as spindle moulders within your own company, they have to go through a recognised accredited testing facility. (Whether Europe adheres as vehemently as the UK I don't know, but he gave me the impression it has to be the case.)
When I asked him about a certain saw, without mentioning names of machine or supplier I might add, he was VERY interested to say the least, and was quite keen to pay them a visit... (I didn't take it any further)
The problem with CE, is yes, it can be as simple as putting a sticker on, until it goes wrong and a procecution ensues.
The Cologne tool fair is a great place to see CE regs being flouted by the Chinese tool cloners. I was told by one UK importer that they asked a Chinese supplier if the tools he was offering were proper CE regulated tools, and he replied 'Oh yes, Chinese Equivelent'!!! :shock: :lol:
Some of the CE stuff is overkill, and as you say, probably not worth the paper its written on, but according to HSE, at the dangerous machinery level, it has to comply rigerously or there could be quite severe consequences.

Andy

 

[devonwoody]

My tablesaw has and is cloned????
Australian forum members recognise my machine and they have a longer spindle that takes dado equipment.
I would assume it is most probably the same motor.
So Europe might not like dado cutters but other countries including USA accept them.
I think regulations for the protection of employees is a good thing but private indiviuals should be allowed to make their own decisions.

 

[White House Workshop]

In the right machine a dado is a quick, quiet and accurate tool.
Philly

Not sure about that! My Delta stackable dado really roars when the saw is running! You certainly know it's in there as opposed to a nice thin 10" blade.

 

[White House Workshop]

Don't take this the wrong way, because it's your workshop and your business, so you can do what you want in it, but as your a pro, I am wondering what would happen insurance wise, if god forbid, you or one of your employees had an accident caused by the dado head cutters, or even a non brake assisted table saw. Would you still be insured if you were not following H&S rules and regulations?

Just a thought.

Cheers

Mike

Not taking anything the wrong way at all Mike. My workshop is my own space, and if I was lucky enough to generate enough income from my woodworking to actually employ someone I'd be over the moon! I might be making a bit of money from some woodwork, but it's not the source of my income and isn't ever likely to be anything beyond enough to pay for the next supply of wood.

 

[Sawdust]

DW,

Only you can decide whether you consider a dado sufficiently safe to use and whether the setup and adjustment time fits in with your type of woodworking. Most people will tell you that a router is much better and can do everything you need but the fact that you want to use one suggests that you have already concluded that one would be of benefit.

From a safety perspective, I'm sure you can rig up a decent guard which keeps your fingers away from the blade but don't forget that your saw's motor is braked whereas the Aussie equivalent may not be and there is a good chance that the extra weight of the dado could cause it to come undone when you turn the saw off. If I was going going to modify my machine (which is very similar to yours) I would want to be absolutely certain that the braking issues were addressed before fitting one.

If you do find a way of modifying your saw to take a dado and address the braking issue, I would be very interested to know how you do it as I woudl also do the same to mine.

Regarding the comments about CE marking. We get our products at work (completely unrelated to woodwork) CE marked and my understanding is that it is an electrical safety and interference check so I don't see how it is applicable to whether or not a dado is dangerous.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Slim]

Regarding the comments about CE marking. We get our products at work (completely unrelated to woodwork) CE marked and my understanding is that it is an electrical safety and interference check so I don't see how it is applicable to whether or not a dado is dangerous.

Not so. The CE mark is added by the manufacturer to indicate the product meets the applicable EU laws, such as motors that brake within 10 seconds.

 

[Sawdust]

Regarding the comments about CE marking. We get our products at work (completely unrelated to woodwork) CE marked and my understanding is that it is an electrical safety and interference check so I don't see how it is applicable to whether or not a dado is dangerous.

Not so. The CE mark is added by the manufacturer to indicate the product meets the applicable EU laws, such as motors that brake within 10 seconds.

Thanks Simon,

I stand corrected regarding the braking which is of course a key aspect of using the dado safely.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

DW

having used a dado head on a (now gone) tabelsaw for a few years, I can honestly say that they are more trouble than they are worth. by the time you have set up the dado in your saw and got the shims right etc, you would have cut the dados with a router and be half way through your cup of tea.

As far as safety goes, if the machine is strong enough to run it, then a dado is no more dangerous than a normal blade witout crown guard

 

[Mike.C]

WHW,

Not taking anything the wrong way at all Mike. My workshop is my own space, and if I was lucky enough to generate enough income from my woodworking to actually employ someone I'd be over the moon! I might be making a bit of money from some woodwork, but it's not the source of my income and isn't ever likely to be anything beyond enough to pay for the next supply of wood.

I see, it's the web site that had me fooled, I thought it was a full blown business :lol:

Cheers

Mike

 

[White House Workshop]

I see, it's the web site that had me fooled, I thought it was a full blown business :lol:

Cheers

Mike

The power of the Internet 8) :lol: 8) :lol: 8)

 

[Adam]

Regarding the comments about CE marking. We get our products at work (completely unrelated to woodwork) CE marked and my understanding is that it is an electrical safety and interference check so I don't see how it is applicable to whether or not a dado is dangerous.

Cheers
Mike

Interesting. The concensus so far on here is the CE marking is to protect the user. Although in general, thats correct, at my last employer we used it to protect us. From lawsuits.

Firstly, to get a CE mark you need to determine which EU legislation is applicable to your product. That in itself is a specialist area and often sub-contracted. If you were a manufacturer of table saws, you could argue that table saw legislation was not applicable (for some bizarre reason, say, becuase your saws are intended as toys for children) and you should be tested against the requirements for say, childrens toys. In court however, it would be hard to justify not being complaint with table saw legislation. If someone had chopped there hand off, they would have a much stronger legal case against you.

So, the first aspect of CE marking is to be tested against the regulations appropriate for your product.

Then the testing, again, although you can do this in house for many aspects, but how well would that stand up legally in court. Is your equipment calibrated? Personnel trained? My product was a wireless product, and hence could (potentially) interfere with pacemakers, communications between ambulances, and with your phone lines etc etc etc. Having it tested externally provides a much more "rigorous" proof, that you are inline with any relevent regulations. Of course I tested it internally, but its a back covering exercise. What happens when its struck by lightening, what happens if it burns...

Anyone / company can import a non-compliant saw or other item, and put a "CE" mark on it - sure it may be meaningless to some, but at the point you recieve an injury, and wish to sue, then it becomes a much more useful piece of legislation. The company could end up in court, and if, as mentioned, there is no folder of evidence / testing then they are most likely going to end up with a very big claim.

As Andy mentioned (for most products actually), I think inches and inches of paperwork is the minimum level of evidence needed to demonstate you comply with all regulations.

Of course, going back to the actual question, it seems Devon knows about using a router, he has a router, but he wants to extend the arbour to put a dado blade on. Why are we telling him to use a router? He knows already. Devon, could you get a parts list for your "cloned" type saw and see if the arbour could be removed and replaced with a longer one, even if it meant one of your Australian friends purchasing one and sending it over to you?

Adam

 

[andy king]

Great post Adam!

Sums it up absolutely brilliantly.

Andy

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Adam

Thanks for the information.

I sent an email to Woodford yesterday asking whether their tablesaws are CE approved, I'll let you know if I get a reply.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Adam]

Hi Adam

Thanks for the information.

I sent an email to Woodford yesterday asking whether their tablesaws are CE approved, I'll let you know if I get a reply.

Cheers,
Neil

This in itself is also grey. For example, scheppach now sell a "grooving" type device, which is pretty close to what I would call a dado blade. I'm sure they have checked and are on legal ground. If you sold a saw with a long arbour and it indicated in the manual that only single blades could be used in order for the brake to operate in under 10 seconds would it be compliant? (Due the warning in the manual) Does the regulation actually ban long arbours? It's not my specialist area, and I have only vaguely read the legislation a long long time ago, there are various difficulties depending on how the legislation is written, and intepreted and until such time as a court case takes place, to set a legal precident, then a small scale importer may well continue indefinately without problems, and be considered "CE" compliant.

Adam