Hand powered grinder setup

[B3nder]

Hello I've just inherited an old hand crank grinder.

I can't for the life of me figure out how to set it up for grinding.


https://flic.kr/p/JkdzFw

With the picture linked above

I can only see how to rest the tool on the narrow edge.

I can't see how to change it to allow the tool to rest o the longer flat and allow me to set the angle.

I know it's simple but I can't figure it out. Arrrrggghhh :evil:

Can't resize pictures as I'm on my phone .

Please help!

 

[Beau]

I suspect it should be used with the tool just resting on the narrow edge. Eyeball the edge to be sharpened and lift off and see if you need to correct the angle. I never adjust the guide on my grinder and just grind and check. I guess the stone was lot larger when new and came appreciably closer to the guide.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

You rest the back of whatever you're grinding on the toolrest, and the bevel on the wheel, and hold it in place with one hand, then crank with the other. Move the job side to side a bit to even up the grind. It's that simple. Judge bevel angles by eye, or make a simple bevel gauge by marking some common angles on a piece of card or thin wood, and cutting then out - offer the tool to the gauge, and adjust position of holding on wheel and rest accordingly. There's no jigging.

You can if you wish, fix the grinder to a table or bench, and lash up a wooden grinding rest fixed to the table in front of the wheel. Remove the 'bit of bent metal' rest if you do.

Couple of other points. Firstly, the wheel looks rather glazed, and might benefit from a cleanup with a devil stone. Secondly, it looks as if the machine could accommodate a larger wheel, and if possible fitting one would improve it's usefulness. (You can buy two or three extras, and dress the profiles to a range of curves should you ever need to regrind in-cannel bevels.) Finally, a bit of a clean-up and oiling the gears wouldn't go amiss, either.

Hand grinders are very simple bits of kit, and don't really benefit from 'overthinking'. Just hold bevel to wheel and crank, basically.

 

[MikeG.]

looks about ready for a new stone.

How do you find such a thing? A new stone, I mean, to fit something like this. It's wider and bigger than modern grinders.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

looks about ready for a new stone.

How do you find such a thing? A new stone, I mean, to fit something like this. It's wider and bigger than modern grinders.

Should be something suitable here;

https://www.abtec4abrasives.com/bench-a ... -438-c.asp

 

[B3nder]

Thanks for all the I go. I was over thinking it. Just seemed like the tool might have resisted on the wider part.

I think I'll have a look for a new wheel, although a coarse o e as I have also got a number of chisel which need re grinding.


Anywhere better than Axmister to a suitable replacement wheel?

 

[AndyT]

I've just gone and looked at mine, which is pretty similar. It's a Niagara 441, made in Manchester. It only has one fixing screw on the tool rest, which means that you can swivel it round and use the flat surface.
I wonder if yours has two mounting points, to suit a large or a small wheel, but is designed to just have one or the other mounting point in use?
Try taking one bolt away and see if it makes sense.

 

[ED65]

Plenty of life left in that old wheel, it just needs to be deglazed.

Just seemed like the tool might have resisted on the wider part.

I think it is supposed to, at least that's how it works on most models. Is the plate that the rest is bolted to capable of rotating at all?

 

[Vann]

Here's Alf (formerly of this site) demonstrating a hand grinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8CPbZg8PGo

I use mine for all my chisel and plane iron grinding.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

Here are some pictures of the setup on mine, which should make what I was saying clearer.

It only uses one screw and nut to hold the tool rest. The single fixing lets you pivot the rest so that it is at a useful angle to the wheel.

Here it is from the other side

and here is a clumsily posed shot showing how you can use the flat of the rest when grinding a primary bevel

I reckon that yours has two mounting points so you can use the outer one when your wheel is large and the inner one when it has worn away like yours has. You don't need both to get a firm enough fixing.

 

[Bod]

What does the plate between the tool rest and the cast lug with the first screw do?
If that was removed, would you have a machine resembling AndyT's grinder?
I think you may have a modified basic hand grinder, a most useful item, very difficult to over heat a chisel,but will still take the skin off your knuckles!
Mine is mounted on a bit of wood, which is held in an engineering vice when used.

Bod

 

[AndyT]

So, B3ender, have you managed to get it sorted out yet?

 

[B3nder]

Cheers BOD very useful. I've actually stripped it down to give it a clean.

I think I may remove the extra piece of metal from mine.

Also looking to get a new stone however the inner bore is between two standard sizes.

 

[paulm]

Don't worry about the bore size, just lie the grinder on it's side and centre the new wheel on the spindle by eye, then tighten up the clamping washers to hold it in place, do a final true up with devil stone or dresser after.

It won't have the same stresses as a high speed grinder so the clamping washers should do the job fine, and it's surprising how well you can get it centred by eye.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Another approach is to make a bush for the wheel bore.

Take a piece of hardwood, and in the endgrain drill a hole that will just clear the spindle - nice, sliding fit is ideal, but definitely not a tight one. Then place the grinding wheel over it, centring the bore nicely over the spindle hole, and with a pencil mark the wheel bore on the wood. That should give you a circle concentric to the spindle hole. Cut out and pare carefully to give a sliding fit in the wheel bore (again, not a tight fit - you don't want it swelling and cracking the wheel). Length should be a smidge less than the wheel width.

Even easier if you have a lathe, and even better if you can knock one up from brass or something like nylon; but for a hand grinder, the wooden one will do fine.

By the way, whether you use the home-made bore spacer or the 'centre by eye' approach Paul described above, don't forget the blotters between the wheel sides and the clamping washers - thick paper or thin card will do fine. They spread the load of the steel washers a bit more evenly over the rough wheel grit, making for a better grip between washers and wheel with a bit less chance of the washers crushing the wheel.

(By the way, for a powered grinder, buy or make the proper fitted plastic spacers - a wobbly wheel at 3000rpm is not going to be funny. You won't get remotely close to that rotational speed with a hand-crank, so you can get away with things much more easily.)

 

[ED65]

It strikes me that another option for a bushing is one of the low-temperature thermoforming plastic such as Polymorph or InstaMorph. These are semi-hard plastics (consistency similar to nylon) that are softened to a malleable state in hot water and can then be formed or moulded. So once the wheel is centred the plastic could be forced into the gap, effectively cast in situ for a perfect fit.

 

[AES]

Yeah, "maybe" ED 65, I just don't know that type of plastic at all. The only thing I would say is that I don't like the sound of "forcing" anything into any grind stone wheel. What happens when that plastic "hardens"/cools from its soft to normal state?

I used a piece of dowel for my hand grinder - trued up on my (metal working!) lathe, then bored & hand reamed to suit. Worked fine - entirely agree with CheshireChappie about being very careful not to "force" anything into any grinding wheel, and absolutely NOT, not ever, if it's a powered grinder

 

[ED65]

"Forcing" was just a turn of phrase, it wouldn't actually require actual force. You could push it in with your fingertips.

And to further put minds at rest, the plastic does not expand upon cooling.

 

[AES]

OK, if no "forcing" required it should be no problem. As said, I don't know anything about that plastic.

 

[B3nder]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'll make a bushing.

The biggest thing though is facing the stone. I think I'll give an eBay 2 quid facing tool a go. I'll keep you posted.