Hand planing hardwood - bad idea?

[MikeK]

Just to point out that the right technique is the one that is right for you...

How very true. Unfortunately, this will not stop Jacob (and a few others) from telling you how very wrong your method is because it is not how they were taught.

@Ttrees, I attended the four courses taught by David Charlesworth in 2019 and 2020 and have all of his books and videos. I agree with everything you have written so far about the methods for determining flatness. In the image you included in Post #48 showing David checking the squareness of the edge, he is using the video crew's large lights as a backlight. In practice, with no video crew around, we used the large window at the end of his shop for the backlight.

 

[Jester129]

^^^^Nice one!

 

[Jacob]

How very true. Unfortunately, this will not stop Jacob (and a few others) from telling you how very wrong your method is because it is not how they were taught.

What I was taught was the very well established and traditional methods which have been in common use for generations.
I was trying to understand what this new method actually is.
I understand about a backlight for checking for square but this is just normal and you turn to wherever the light is best.

Wearing in "The Essential Woodworker" describes normal methods very well. Edge jointing too. Though he does have some odd ideas of his own!

 

[Fred48]

How very true. Unfortunately, this will not stop Jacob (and a few others) from telling you how very wrong your method is because it is not how they were taught.

@Ttrees, I attended the four courses taught by David Charlesworth in 2019 and 2020 and have all of his books and videos. I agree with everything you have written so far about the methods for determining flatness. In the image you included in Post #48 showing David checking the squareness of the edge, he is using the video crew's large lights as a backlight. In practice, with no video crew around, we used the large window at the end of his shop for the backlight.

Like you, I also greatly improved my knowledge, and skills by attending a three week course with David Charlesworth over 20 years ago.
Learning his methods of getting my plane and chisels in top top condition.
Learning to prepare timber to a very high standard.
Making and fitting a small drawer with through and lapped dovetails.
After attending the course, I decided to enter the Furniture& Cabinetmaking magazine competition in 2003 and gained second place in the trained amateur category,with the box that appears on the left.
It was as a result of attending that course, and the knowledge and skills I attained on that course that contributed to my success.
Congratulations to @Ttrees for your imput. I would highly recommended David's methods
Fred

 

[ecokestove]

Just because something is well established and traditional doesn't mean to say it is still the best way.

Someone told me some years ago that the person who has, say, 50 years experience probably has only 5 years experience that is now 45 years old.

 

[Jacob]

Just because something is well established and traditional doesn't mean to say it is still the best way.

True, but a lot of 'new' ways often turn out to be 'solutions' to things which were not problems in the first place.
Inevitably they get taken up very enthusiastically by beginners having the usual beginners' problems, which we all have had.

Someone told me some years ago that the person who has, say, 50 years experience probably has only 5 years experience that is now 45 years old.

More likely to be 50 years of valuable accumulated experience.

I still haven't found out exactly what the Dave C's unorthodox way actually is, or why it's better than the tried and tested!

 

[Ttrees]

No. If a piece was so rocky it wouldn't sit on a bench I 'd probably put it in the vice to flatten the back a bit. Shims doesn't sound a good idea to me at all.

Exactly, this or some other method might work, see Follansbee
But when it comes to a wide narrow panel, it needs be on the bench,
therefore knocking off the high spots, which might need doing twice or more on dry timber,
Not sure if you're using winding sticks at some stage around this...
and your bench light, unless you take off your headlamp or have a window at the end of your bench.

Using the bench throughout is much easier, i.e making sure no twist or bow is present therefore eliminating the material deflection one needs for thinner work, or work which has deflect under the plane.

He didn't. Why would he?

What, this upside down thing? Still means nothing to me.

Surely there's some articles regarding planing thin stock, although not sure who your referring to.
In the Charlesworth vid, he mentioned having a flat surface being essential or something along those lines for planing thinner drawer sides.

How very true. Unfortunately, this will not stop Jacob (and a few others) from telling you how very wrong your method is because it is not how they were taught.

@Ttrees, I attended the four courses taught by David Charlesworth in 2019 and 2020 and have all of his books and videos. I agree with everything you have written so far about the methods for determining flatness. In the image you included in Post #48 showing David checking the squareness of the edge, he is using the video crew's large lights as a backlight. In practice, with no video crew around, we used the large window at the end of his shop for the backlight.

I presume you got a much more thorough insight into things Mike,
I'd seen the Cosman video and Charlesworth's one afterwards and it was enough to make planing easy for me overnight.

I dont think this thread has came to handbags at dawn yet, nor doubt anyone minds a bit of bedtime reading
and meself and Jacob aren't too fragile about our views anyways.

True, but a lot of 'new' ways often turn out to be 'solutions' to things which were not problems in the first place.
Inevitably they get taken up very enthusiastically by beginners having the usual beginners' problems, which we all have had.

Like a worklamp beside your bench and actually using it.
Surely using your winding sticks would actually be doing the job of your combi square in real life,
I just reckon your just having a laugh.
Even that would be much easier than being in the dark and using your graphite combi square to mark high spots, which would be for no reason to do, if one had respect for the edges
which you would anyway if you're using winding sticks.

You won't see Charlesworth plane anything and hope he takes a shaving, there is emphasis on
knowing what you want to do, and not some attitude that the plane can simply find high spots
with a load of scrubbing.
If you've planed thinner stock before, then why would ones thinking change regarding
different dimensioned stuff which presents the same characteristics,
i.e thinner work, longer work and the work correctly supported.

Not that you wouldn't be addressing these things yourself, but often suggest advice otherwise on
the opinion which is generally a catch all answer which is never specific enough to be of much use to anyone.

All the best anyways

Tom

 

[Molynoox]

Something that used to happen to me was getting the stropping bit wrong. I concentrated 100% sharpening on the stones but not on the strop.

I believe I was rolling the iron down the strop rather than holding the iron at the correct angle, this then caused the cutting edge to roll over. I worked this out by testing the sharpness by taking a few hairs off my arm before stropping and the irons sharpness was great. I then stropped the iron and tested again and found I couldn't get any hairs to come off.

When planing wood before understanding the above, I found the plane wouldn't start cutting until the blade was far too out, which meant it was blooming hard work to push through the stroke.

Might be of no use to you but I remember tearing my hair out trying to work out what I was doing wrong, and it took me a long time to realise. I still think sharpening is a dark art and offering need to be made to the shaving gods!!!!

I think that was the exact problem I was having when I started this thread.

When I reground the edge the bevel looked noticeably flatter and not convex. I now strop with the honing guide which might be a stupid idea but it's working.

 

[Molynoox]

I've started my next effort, some pencil boxes.
I took a cedar 4x2 offcut I had and reswawed it into 4 lengths, 3 lengths at about 10mm and the remaining 4th slightly thinner so that will do for the lids.

Here is the 4x2

Here is the result after the bandsaw and some frantic planing

The unplanned bit on top is the thin bit for the lid, that will need some more effort than the others because it has very inconsistent thickness.
Cedar is so easy to plane though!

Here is where I got to after a bit of hacking around

I didn't have any pencils big enough for this box so decided best to shorten it a bit

I was planning on doing dovetail joints for this project but as ridiculous as it sounds I don't actually have a suitable handsaw. So I decided to just do mitre joints and cut them on the mitre saw
Glue up is going to be a massive pain though, I've just realised
Martin

 

[Jacob]

I was planning on doing dovetail joints for this project but as ridiculous as it sounds I don't actually have a suitable handsaw.

A tenon saw would do. Better if you take the set off a bit by stoning each side. Coping saw unnecessary. A handful of bevel edge chisels handy. A cutting gauge more or less essential - £5 or so on ebay or modify a woody.

So I decided to just do mitre joints and cut them on the mitre saw
Glue up is going to be a massive pain though, I've just realised
...

Mitred box joints are PITA, weak unless reinforced with DTs or splines, the most difficult to do, and best avoided.
Best is either DTs or a tongue and groove (over the top on a TS). Both will hold themselves in place accurately whilst gluing, without clamping, or at least with clamps removed.
I got into making boxes like yours when somebody asked me for some for a project. Handy way to use up off-cuts.
Just plain and simple - and very useful, particularly about 13"x 9" which is handy for sorting papers, or as a general purpose tray when fiddling about with the usual clutter of tools, pencils, screws etc. Recycled ply for the bottoms, or glued-up thin solid panels - another good exercise!

 

[Jacob]

Exactly, this or some other method might work, see Follansbee
But when it comes to a wide narrow panel, it needs be on the bench,
therefore knocking off the high spots, which might need doing twice or more on dry timber,

Yes no prob. A bench with a well may be too narrow, in which case I'd drop on a piece of MDF with a stop tacked on- thinner than the desired thickness of the panel

Not sure if you're using winding sticks at some stage around this...

Not particularly. You can see if the surface is flat but in any case if it's a bit warped it'll still go in as a drawer bottom

and your bench light, unless you take off your headlamp or have a window at the end of your bench.

As I said - Angle-poise often too static and focussed - a good ambient light better

Using the bench throughout is much easier,

I never use anything else (does anybody? ) but may add a piece of MDF as above

i.e making sure no twist or bow is present therefore eliminating the material deflection one needs for thinner work, or work which has deflect under the plane.

Yes. You look at the workpiece and where it is too high you plane it off, as done for 1000s of years by generations of woodworkers. Can help if you mark where it is too high, or vice versa the level you want to retain.

Surely there's some articles regarding planing thin stock,

Not in Wearing "Essential Woodworker". It's not a problem anyway though I wouldn't be surprised if he has something in one of his other books - he's into jigs and crafty wheezes

..
In the Charlesworth vid, he mentioned having a flat surface being essential or something along those lines for planing thinner drawer sides.

Self evident really and universal normal practice. Though it's surprising what you can do without the best kit, if you really have to

....I dont think this thread has came to handbags at dawn yet, nor doubt anyone minds a bit of bedtime reading
and meself and Jacob aren't too fragile about our views anyways.

Absolutely! Just chatting about how to do stuff!

Like a worklamp beside your bench and actually using it.

Sometimes do, but see angle poise comments

Surely using your winding sticks would actually be doing the job of your combi square in real life,
I just reckon your just having a laugh.

Nope!

Even that would be much easier than being in the dark and using your graphite combi square to mark high spots, which would be for no reason to do, if one had respect for the edges

It marks the high spots - which would be the edges of it was concave. You then plane them off. Respect doesn't come into it!

which you would anyway if you're using winding sticks.

You won't see Charlesworth plane anything and hope he takes a shaving, there is emphasis on
knowing what you want to do, and not some attitude that the plane can simply find high spots
with a load of scrubbing.

Exactly. You have a good look first and if necessary mark things. Wearing is very good on this.
The trouble with gurus is that they survive by telling you first that something is difficult and second that they know the answers. More often than not they are wrong on both counts - across life as a whole not just woodwork!

....

All the best anyways

Tom

You too Tom, and Happy New Year!