Hacked Off Rant/ HDD v Mini DV

[Smudger]

I am REALLY hacked off.

Well in advance of the arrival of No1 grandchild (all willing) in October, and as I get my last paycheck in August, I bought a camcorder. Nothing special, a HDD Panasonic for £260 from Amazon. In the Amazon blurb it clearly says - compatible platforms: PC and Mac.

Well, it ain't. You can download movies to a PC but - get this - only stills to a Mac.

What a crock! I am all Meldrew over this. I have sent disgusted emails demanding my money back, but I'm not holding my breath. Though I imagine with some shouting and threatening I can make dishonest descrption and unfit for purpose to stick.

Now, having trawled Mac forums, I see that most people advocate Mini DV format as being better quality and more universal. Has anyone got any opinions before I shoot down to Cancom at Guildford for a Canon?

 

[Jake]

I hope you posted pretty promptly, because the Distance Selling Regulations are possibly your new best friend (for a short while): http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resour ... on-periods

 

[Smudger]

Thanks for that, Jake. I sent an email on the day the goods were received - do you know if an email counts as 'notification in writing'?

 

[MrJay]

A video camera limited to stills - what the hell are you complaining about? I mean c'mon - you've gotta accept some liability for owning a different computer in the first place.

 

[Smudger]

Yeah.

That's an expensive joke.

 

[Jake]

Thanks for that, Jake. I sent an email on the day the goods were received - do you know if an email counts as 'notification in writing'?

An email counts as writing, yes. You have to say (not in these words) that you are rejecting the goods and want to cancel the contract. If it is still within the seven days, send a follow-up saying that you reject the goods under the DSR.

If it is outside the 7 days, send an email saying that you regret their failure to respond to your earlier emails which were, for the sake of clarity, of course rejections of the goods under the DSR,and that you are disappointed that they have not acknowledged their obligations under the DSR yet, etc etc.


If it's over the 7 days, you should cover your back by mentioning the other things which you identified - ie misrepresentation and sales of goods act stuff - the DSR don't take anything away from those, they just add the unconditional right to reject within 7 days (at a whim, if that's what the customer feels like doing) over and above all your other legal rights.

 

[Smudger]

Thanks. I really didn't know that existed. As I said, I emailed today, within a few hours of the goods being delivered. I'll follow up as you suggest.

Thanks a lot. I can, with a clear conscience, buy a replacement. A Canon, probably. From Jessops, where I can ask questions and go back to rant if not happy.

Shows how important it is not to just buy the cheapest offer.

 

[Jake]

I knew you emailed them the same day you received it, just not when that was - hence all the extra gubbins. Good-oh - almost zero risk, indefensible claim.

 

[Jake]

Oh,and my pleasure, nice to be able to help. Frequently, the law* isn't such an ass**


(*and by the way, this was Brussels in action again, not Westminster).

(**although Amazon might disagree)

 

[Jake]

From Jessops, where I can ask questions and go back to rant if not happy.

Shows how important it is not to just buy the cheapest offer.

But make sure you really do choose the right one, because the DSR don't apply in stores, obviously!

 

[gidon]

Smudger
The camcorder market is a nightmare at the moment - it's very difficult making a choice on a format!
High Def or Standard Def, MiniDV, DVD, HDD, Solid State!!!
The MiniDV format is great quality and designed for editing in anything. The other mediums generally use some more severe compression which makes them harder to edit / less compatible - I guess hence your problem with the Panasonic HDD camera.
The two disadvantages of MiniDV are - you have to copy over to PC/Mac in real time, and playback on the camcorder is a little limited (it's a tape!)
If you can live with these two issues I'd probably still go for MiniDV. The quality is excellent, tapes are cheap and tapes make a good archiving format anyway.
When Flash memory becomes even cheaper (say a 16GB costs a couple of quid) and they come up with a camera with which uses this medium with a low compression easily editible file format, I'll upgrade my MiniDV camcorder.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Smudger]

Thanks for that - I think I'll go that route. I'm not planning to remake Gone with the Wind! Tapes seem to be very cheap and easy to use, and it looks like iMovie loves them.

Have emailed the company again, stating that I intend to exercise my rights under the DSRs, awaiting reply. I'll keep you informed.

 

[RogerS]

Smudger...do you get any of the Mac mags? Some of them do decent reviews of things like cameras. I'll take a look through my recent copies tonight if you like?

Roger

 

[andycktm]

You know it asonsishes me how people (lot's of people with dv camcorders,
who would love a HDD camcorder) say video recorders are better than dvd player's so to speak.
The best quality on my brothers jvc HDD is mpeg2 dvd (in between dvd and hd) quality.
It's mpeg2 same format as dvd player/pc,instant transfer ready to edit.
Say 30 1 minute clip's instant access to any of them.
No other medium needed.
On lowest quality it's perfect to watch,mpeg1 same as LP on hdd recorder.
Plug it into the dvd recorder instant disc.
What more could you want? :?
People will no doubt say 'are but this and that,but the above is true i've done it all!
Good luck with the money back Smudger hope it goes well

 

[Smudger]

Thanks, Roger. I'll have a look as well.

The company emailed me today, without any arrangements for return, but with advice to look at p90 of the manual - which says that with Macs it only operates as a stills camera...

This is my reply:

Thank you for your rapid response.

I am aware of the instructions on p90 of the manual. If you study them you will see that they apply only to the use of the camcorder as a stills camera when used in conjunction with Macs.

It is clearly an implied condition in the Amazon description that this is a camcorder, ie a camera to record moving images. That is a gross misrepresentation of the actual position. As such it is probably a breach of the Trades Descriptions Act.

I wish to exercise my rights under the Distance Selling Regulations, and I would be grateful if you would send me the arrangements for a return of the item and a full refund (including postage and insurance) as soon as possible.

I am sure that I need not remind you that the DSRs are enforceable by law.


So, we will wait and see what happens next!

Went into Jessops' today, and got some good advice, especially on the use of Mini DV where I may want to eventually complie a movie over a period of time.

 

[Jake]

If you paid by credit card, it would be worth contacting them - they ought to do a chargeback, which reverses the balance of power somewhat.

 

[Smudger]

Brilliant. Never thought of that.

Cheers.

 

[frugal]

Smudger,

It does not matter why you want to return it, the 14 day money back policy is part of the distance selling regulations. You can return it if you decide that the colour does not quite match your eyes if you want. The only things that are exempt are food and things that were made to order.

The only thing you are liable for is to pay for the postage to return it to the seller and to ensure that you send it back in the original packaging.

Just email or phone amazon and ask for a returns number, they are legally obliged to give it to you. I have never had a problem with Amazon.

 

[RogerS]

Dick

You might also want to check out the Apple support discussion group on imovie for recommendations/compatibility.

I came up with quite a few results using this

recommend camcorder

http://discussions.apple.com/category.j ... goryID=141

Cheers

 

[Smudger]

Smudger,

It does not matter why you want to return it, the 14 day money back policy is part of the distance selling regulations. You can return it if you decide that the colour does not quite match your eyes if you want. The only things that are exempt are food and things that were made to order.

The only thing you are liable for is to pay for the postage to return it to the seller and to ensure that you send it back in the original packaging.

Just email or phone amazon and ask for a returns number, they are legally obliged to give it to you. I have never had a problem with Amazon.

Thanks for that. I'm going for reimbursement of postage as well, as they have mis-described the item. Worth a try if I don't get anywhere with the suppliers. I'm feeling confident about this, thanks to you lot! Brilliant!