Guilding

[Artiglio]

Good day all

I’m currently making an oast cowl which is pretty much done and have got to the point of doing the decorative motif. It’s a silhouette figure roughly 18” x 9”. Ideally i’d like to guild it , never tried before had a look online and seems as though its quite doable. The cowl is built from accoya and there are plenty of offcuts left over to laminate a board out of (i’d have preferred a bit of tricoya but don’t see i’ll have a use for the rest of a sheet in near future).
Does anyone have any pointers / tips or feel that accoya will not be a decent material to guild? Once its up i’m hoping that having used accoya i’ll get at least 5 years before i need to do any real maintenance (again hopefully just repainting)

and that when the time comes it’ll be a case of repainting from a cherry picker rather than having to cover the cost of a crane to remove and replace.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Gilding is doable, all I know about acoya is it can attack steel screws. For the gilding you will need to prime, undercoat and top coat in oil based paint. The top coat should be yellow which will help to hide any little imperfections in the gilding. Professional gilders would use a top coat of oil based eggshell and gild directly onto that when it reached the right tack however that takes a lot of experience, for a first timer you should use Japan Size over the top coat of paint and transfer leaf 23.5ct.

 

[AJB Temple]

Nice job on the cowl.

 

[Fitzroy]

Had to look up what on earth that was, everyday's a school day, it looks great! I'd love to see some pictures of how the circular frame at the base is made.

F.

 

[Richard_C]

I've done small scale guiding and copper leaf decoration on turned items. No expert but lessons learned. It's doable and satisfying.

You need a clean still space, the leaf is incredibly light. I do it at my desk, not in the workshop and give myself time. Have more than one soft dry artists brush to hand to push the leaf down . If you hamfistedly get a bit of size on the brush set it aside and move on to a clean one. Wash them up afterwards. And the most important lesson, once you have it in place don't fiddle, leave it to dry. You can always come back and reapply small patches if you find gaps. If you try to move things about before it dries it gets worse and worse and you curse yourself and the world and.... You get the picture.

 

[Cabinetman]

I love that cowel, did you cut the curves out of solid or is it made up of pieces? I did some carved lettering on a church noticeboard and picked it out in gold paint, not satisfactory it just doesn’t last, so I researched a little bit on how to gild and would love to try it, my advices is practice and try it, then let us know how you got on and would love a picture of the finished cowl with it on. Ian

 

[Artiglio]

Cheers mr.p that helps narrow down the internet opinions and gives a way forward.

f @ ajb , thanks though as with many things close inspection shows the errors, but that said its not meant to be a piece of fine furniture. Hardest part was coming up with the sizes no proper drawings available just a few dimensions off the web and a lot of scaling from pictures and driving round the area taking pictures.

Bottom ring is three layers of x25mm accoya in six segment 280 degree segments, routered with a trammel then glued and screwed together. Bit of sanding and turned out ok. No WIP i’m afraid, too much head scratching at the time.

I’m no carpenter or joiner just someone who should have paid more attention when his old man was still around.

Paint Zissner and Bedec MSP, (from a thread on here.)

 

[MikeG.]

I don't know who suggested mixing Zissner and MSP, but I'm not sure it's wise. Zissner is hard, and, as far as I know, non flexible and non-micro-porous (vapour-permeable/ "breathable"). The principle qualities of MSP are that it is flexible and "breathable". I may be completely wrong, but I don't see how a combination of the two is any sort of benefit. I'd have simply used MSP as per the instructions.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Practical Gilding by Peter and Ann Mactaggart is a really excellent book if you feel you need to have the information by your side when working. Richard C's advise is good but I think he is talking about using loose leaf when he said the leaf is light. There is more outlay and more skills to be learned if you go down the loose leaf route, there are advantages too in that you can cut small sections of leaf for small and awkward areas and once mastered you will waste far less gold. however for a beginner I would advise transfer leaf, it is much more forgiving, but you will use more trying to get into nooks and crannies.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/89425199?i...PS2x5HuZ2UAEusrbPqHg-1TS79peCxwRoCrOIQAvD_BwE

 

[Artiglio]

I don't know who suggested mixing Zissner and MSP, but I'm not sure it's wise. Zissner is hard, and, as far as I know, non flexible and non-micro-porous (vapour-permeable/ "breathable"). The principle qualities of MSP are that it is flexible and "breathable". I may be completely wrong, but I don't see how a combination of the two is any sort of benefit. I'd have simply used MSP as per the instructions.

Ok, thanks for that, bit late for the cowl, but the centre post and vane will be ready for paint tomorrow and i’ll use MSP on its own, if nothing else in fullness of time i’ll see how it pans out.

 

[Artiglio]

Practical Gilding by Peter and Ann Mactaggart is a really excellent book if you feel you need to have the information by your side when working. Richard C's advise is good but I think he is talking about using loose leaf when he said the leaf is light. There is more outlay and more skills to be learned if you go down the loose leaf route, there are advantages too in that you can cut small sections of leaf for small and awkward areas and once mastered you will waste far less gold. however for a beginner I would advise transfer leaf, it is much more forgiving, but you will use more trying to get into nooks and crannies.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/89425199?i...PS2x5HuZ2UAEusrbPqHg-1TS79peCxwRoCrOIQAvD_BwE

Thanks again, having had a bit of a read online transfer is going to be what i’ll use. Is there a rough rule,of thumb for how much you need to allow for waste/ overlaps etc? Whilst not as expensive as i was expecting pointless ordering too much.

 

[sunnybob]

We have a concrete buhdda statue in the garden, that my wife applied some gilding to several years ago now. Just used white PVA craft glue and dabbed the gold leaf on with a fine paint brush. Its stayed in place through our monsoon winters and 40c plus summers.

 

[Richard_C]

Yes, should have said I use loose leaf from an art shop, STAEDTLER Fimo brand, its way less than £10 for 10 sheets 14x14 cm. Think its on amazon as well but I'd like my local shop to stay in business. Not sure how much gold there is in it, but the similar copper sheet really is copper because I can patinate it with ammonia fumes and salt or vinegar depending on what you are after.

For my small scale and mainly indoor use I sand to 120, seal wood with dilute pva, let it dry hard then use slightly less dilute pva as seize, let it go 'fingerprint tacky" and apply. Again as its indoors I just finish as I am finishing the piece, sometimes acrylic varnish but normally microcrystalline wax.

Convex surface is a pain because it has no 'give' so you cut triangles, piece and overlap and end up with waste.

Restate, I'm not an expert! I just do what works for me.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Yes, should have said I use loose leaf from an art shop, STAEDTLER Fimo brand
Richard I’m fairly sure what you are using is not gold but Dutch Metal Leaf which is in fact Brass and will tarnish to a greenish colour.
for real gold which needs no sealing or further protection this is the real McCoy
https://www.stonehouses.co.uk/gold-imitation-leaf/gold-leaf/gold-leaf-transfer.html

 

[Richard_C]

Very likely, the pricing is the same for gold, silver and copper. For my uses it's fine. Thanks though, will look up Dutch Metal and see what it really is. Could try to melt down some old taps and get a very big hammer ......

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Thanks again, having had a bit of a read online transfer is going to be what i’ll use. Is there a rough rule,of thumb for how much you need to allow for waste/ overlaps etc? Whilst not as expensive as i was expecting pointless ordering too much.

The leaves are 3” square so I just measure by thumb and then add some on. I do usually end up with some leftovers but it never gets wasted.

 

[sunnybob]

In Thailand, the buhddist temples are full of gold statues of Buhdda.
The poor people come into the temples and buy a 1" square of gold leaf and just press it onto the statue, saying a prayer as they do so. Once the statue has a good layer of gold all over, they cart it away and put another concrete statue there.
I dont know for sure, but I suspect the monks then peel all the gold off and hammer it into new squares to sell again.
Theres no such thing as a poor religion.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

I dont know for sure, but I suspect the monks then peel all the gold off and hammer it into new squares to sell again.
Theres no such thing as a poor religion.
[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha what a scam.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Very likely, the pricing is the same for gold, silver and copper. For my uses it's fine. Thanks though, will look up Dutch Metal and see what it really is. Could try to melt down some old taps and get a very big hammer ......

This is the metal leaf from Wrights of Lymm it is also known as Schlag.
https://www.stonehouses.co.uk/140mm-loose-booklet-shade-2-5-standard-imitation-gold.html

 

[Bm101]

Are you going to gild all of it? Just wondering what the internals painted black in bedec would look like with the exterior in gold (or copper! Sorry, I have a thing for copper leaf). Maybe the contrast could be stunning?
One other reason for this would be the huge of advantage of not having to touch the awkward internals for the best part of 20 years in situ. at height while the relatively easy outer would be a doddle in comparison to access every 5 years or so... I'm a rope access worker, I'd love to do it!
Really looking forward to seeing this develop.