Guess the Holtey

[David C]

Ian,

I so sympathize about the lack of the dreaded nicotine.

The difference is I failed and you succeded, hang in there!

Having done the beastly Shepherd kit, I have a very fair idea of the work that goes into a Holtey, or similar infill.

In my case about 130 hours...............

David Charlesworth

 

[Ian Dalziel]

In my case about 130 hours...............

thats after the basic material is cut.....I'll not tell how many hours are in one of mine :shock: ....most wouldnt beleive what really goes in.
from initial drawing ...programming.....machining....then the work begins.

Having seen and built shepherd kits Karls is on a whole different level.

One major flaw i found with the Shepherd kit was its patterns were cut out by laser.....which by doing it this way the edges are all work hardened before you even start work on it.....you have to pound it with a heavy hammer to get the metal to flow...this then distorts the shell.....result long hours trying to sort a twisted body....
reading your build log in F&C i noticed you had that very problem...albeit i dont think you actually realised that this was a problem.....

sorry for the rant this morning....i'm away to growl at someone

I

 

[Glen C]

One major flaw i found with the Shepherd kit was its patterns were cut out by laser.....which by doing it this way the edges are all work hardened before you even start work on it.....you have to pound it with a heavy hammer to get the metal to flow...this then distorts the shell.....result long hours trying to sort a twisted body....
reading your build log in F&C i noticed you had that very problem...albeit i dont think you actually realised that this was a problem.....

Beautiful work, Ian ... and Karl

That's interesting information on the Shepherd kits. Does that apply to brass sides as well as steel ones?

Cheers.

 

[Ian Dalziel]

That's interesting information on the Shepherd kits. Does that apply to brass sides as well as steel ones

Glen...it doesnt apply to brass sides as these are milled...but....the steel sole is laser cut......about 0.5mm-1mm of metal around where its been cut is very hard....and requires a fair bit of pounding to get it to drift, this in turn work hardens it again and can cause possible chipping...just where you dont want it.
Shepherd didnt leave enough material to file away.
They also do their dovetails the spiers way....ie sides inserted from the top, you then pound them into the dovetail shape......this is very difficult to do unless like Doug and Ben you have done numerous and experiance what can go wrong.
The Norris way they are inserted from the side with an already preshaped dovetail....peining is then much reduced and distortion to the shell is kept to a minimum.
Its very difficult and time consuming to lap out even a couple of thou evenly...so the less distortion the better. Remember when you start peining...protect the surrounding area with a couple of layers of masking tape...this protects from deep hollows caused by missed hammer blows.
There holding jig they supply i would'nt use...pm me with your email address and i'll send pictures of another way of holding for peining the shell.
I have seen numerous shepherd kits with slightly untidy and squarish dovetails...mine included
There might be ways of overcoming it .....i dont know?
just my experiances and observations.

I

 

[philip marcou]

One major flaw i found with the Shepherd kit was its patterns were cut out by laser.....

Now that is interesting to know......Folk simply must not cheat by using these hi tech methods :shock:
Goes to show that hand made is often the best: not that I advocate making superior planes by hack saw, file and holding the work between one's toes, note.
Actually there is no point to this post other than to communicate with other planemakingmaniacs- how are you doing Ian?

 

[David C]

Ian,

I was aware of the laser induced hardening when filing the compound D/T slopes, and trying to improve/flatten the horizontal shoulder lines between. Very hard and nasty. Luckily I had bought new files.

I was not aware of the implication for peining. The peining was very difficult, and I would not have succeded without the hemispherical ended punches, which Karl advised.

One of my major difficulties, apart from the rusty shell plates, was that the milled infills did not fit the shell. Re working pre milled complex shapes is a nightmare, as the original datum/jigging surfaces have been lost.

I am very pleased that the series of articles is in book 3. I hope my Moans & Groans and general difficulties may help others, to have an easier and pleasanter journey.

I have no doubt whatever that the Holtey Kit will be a completely different experience ;-)

David Charlesworth

 

[Ian Dalziel]

One of my major difficulties, apart from the rusty shell plates, was that the milled infills did not fit the shell. Re working pre milled complex shapes is a nightmare, as the original datum/jigging surfaces have been lost.

from memory you did an infill that required overstuffing. this itself is very difficult to do and get right and even both sides.....you also had an early kit...they did improve with the intro of a cnc router for their infills.

Still...you took on one of the hardest styles of infill with little experiance of making them and did a lovely job on it......you also noted the time involved and just exactly how difficult it can be

Philip....yes i'm fine...still addicted

I

 

[Glen C]

There holding jig they supply i would'nt use...pm me with your email address and i'll send pictures of another way of holding for peining the shell.

Thanks for all the helpful advice and information, Ian. I have 2 Shepherd kits to build shortly and I'm getting nervous. :?

I've PM'd my e-mail address.

Cheers.

Glen