StephenArfer
Established Member
"Eats Shoots and Leaves" paperback authored by Lynne Truss. Well worth a read. That's Lynne Truss, not Liz!
Grammar Post
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Cozzer
Established Member
...or my particular favourite...
"My God! Watch out!", he ejaculated.
as opposed to
"My God! Watch out!". He ejaculated.
Henniep
Established Member
The word 'duck' is 75% obscene.
We didn't have metaphors in my day, we didn't beat about the bush.
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of.
We didn't have metaphors in my day, we didn't beat about the bush.
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/25-words-that-don-t-mean-what-they-used-to
Thought this might be of interest. Surprised coward was not included. Originally from Cow-Herd similar to Shepard it came to mean brave as trying to look out for a herd of cows without modern machinery but with wolfs was a dangerous job, taken to it's current meaning by irony.
Thought this might be of interest. Surprised coward was not included. Originally from Cow-Herd similar to Shepard it came to mean brave as trying to look out for a herd of cows without modern machinery but with wolfs was a dangerous job, taken to it's current meaning by irony.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Eats roots, shoots and leaves.
Dibs-h
Established Member
"My team (or other group noun) and myself did....."
I've learned to roll my eyes invisibly every time I hear "myself" used in that way.
I've learned to roll my eyes invisibly every time I hear "myself" used in that way.
Molynoox
Established Member
Interesting question, I've given this some thought...
For most people words are a tool, not an end result. We just want to get our point across and have a conversation, most of the time. That's the overall goal of a non writer. What we write is not going to be printed into books and read over and over by lots of people. For a writer the words are the end result and for us they are transient, only serving a purpose, subservient to the message we are trying to convey.
With a guitar the notes are the thing that matter, they are not just the tools, they are the end result. So if somebody misses out a few notes (commas) then it affects the end result, but if somebody is explaining to me the concept of gravity, and misses out all the commas then I still enjoy it if they do it well because science is fascinating and having those little light bulb moments is what I live for - if the commas help me get there then I care and if they don't then I don't. It's not the commas I remember, it's the message, the meaning, the understanding.
if I'm reading a printed book I may or may not care if they are there or not. I'm more likely to care as those words are the end result, the words on the page are the art form. But in reality I'm still more interested in the message than the method.
Woodworking anybody?
'Eats shoots and leaves'... A good read if you like grammar stuff
Martin
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I don't know, it's a tricky call. Should we all be at liberty to spell words however we like, add apostrophes to random plurals according to no obvious rule, and capitalize words at whim? If so, then can you call that the language evolving? I guess it's not illegal or immoral, but why would anyone knowingly want to write like that? It makes no sense to me, but I'm open to suggestions.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I have read it, some years ago.Interesting question, I've given this some thought...
For most people words are a tool, not an end result. We just want to get our point across and have a conversation, most of the time. That's the overall goal of a non writer. What we write is not going to be printed into books and read over and over by lots of people. For a writer the words are the end result and for us they are transient, only serving a purpose, subservient to the message we are trying to convey.
With a guitar the notes are the thing that matter, they are not just the tools, they are the end result. So if somebody misses out a few notes (commas) then it affects the end result, but if somebody is explaining to me the concept of gravity, and misses out all the commas then I still enjoy it if they do it well because science is fascinating and having those little light bulb moments is what I live for - if the commas help me get there then I care and if they don't then I don't. It's not the commas I remember, it's the message, the meaning, the understanding.
if I'm reading a printed book I may or may not care if they are there or not. I'm more likely to care as those words are the end result, the words on the page are the art form. But in reality I'm still more interested in the message than the method.
Woodworking anybody?
'Eats shoots and leaves'... A good read if you like grammar stuff
Martin
I agree, words are a tool for communicating. So I do must best to communicate effectively and efficiently. Punctuation helps with this, spelling can also help. I don't want to be the grammar police, although there's plenty of opportunity on the internet, but the subject came up, and it interests me. Especially the apostrophe thing. I can never understand what perceived rule people are following when they apostrophise some plurals, but not all.
I don't really care, though. I find it hard to get outraged about stuff that doesn't affect me much, like grammar or gender pronouns. I'm too busy ranting about drivers who don't use their indicators, but turn on hazard lights when parking illegally.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
On people getting mad when corrected. As children we were corrected as we learned. Then we went to school and received more corrections up to the point when we graduated. I think by then people were tired of being corrected and for some when corrected now it now it digs into the core of their soul and they rebel. That is probably a poorly constructed sentence. hopefully you get the idea. 
Pete
Pete
WowInteresting question, I've given this some thought...
For most people words are a tool, not an end result. We just want to get our point across and have a conversation, most of the time. That's the overall goal of a non writer. What we write is not going to be printed into books and read over and over by lots of people. For a writer the words are the end result and for us they are transient, only serving a purpose, subservient to the message we are trying to convey.
With a guitar the notes are the thing that matter, they are not just the tools, they are the end result. So if somebody misses out a few notes (commas) then it affects the end result, but if somebody is explaining to me the concept of gravity, and misses out all the commas then I still enjoy it if they do it well because science is fascinating and having those little light bulb moments is what I live for - if the commas help me get there then I care and if they don't then I don't. It's not the commas I remember, it's the message, the meaning, the understanding.
if I'm reading a printed book I may or may not care if they are there or not. I'm more likely to care as those words are the end result, the words on the page are the art form. But in reality I'm still more interested in the message than the method.
Woodworking anybody?
'Eats shoots and leaves'... A good read if you like grammar stuff
Martin
Agent_zed
Established Member
It's interesting to me that you pick something like guitar music as an example of a structured and rigid format. It really isn't. Most guitarists will change what they play in different settings and whenever there mood changes. Loads of videos on 'how to play X properly' and they will look through videos of live performances and show you the numerous different ways the guitarist plays the same song. But 99% of people won't even notice.
If I played sweet child of mine and missed a few notes in the solo you'd still know what I was playing, same as missing a few commas in a sentence. I guess if I was playing in an orchestra then missing a note would be a problem as it would put the other musicians off their part. Which I guess is akin to it not being a problem missing a few commas on a forum post but it potentially causing an issue on a court document or police report.
I agree that we should all aim for a decent level of writing as it aids understanding but in most instances it won't make a difference as we understand the context. Same as speech. Should we all aim for the Queen's English? regional accents regularly drop certain letters but you are unlikely to point out to someone that they are dropping their 'H's unless you really can't understand what they are saying.
Should we point out when someone ends with a preposition? or whether the oxford comma is acceptable or not.
To be honest I do get annoyed when newspapers get it wrong as it is literally their job to write. On occasion when I've looked at the dailymail website it seems they just throw something at a keyboard and hope it makes some semblance of a sentence. so many times I've seen the wrong words used which changes the entire meaning.
I imagine that you're largely correct about many people not liking to be corrected.On people getting mad when corrected. As children we were corrected as we learned. Then we went to school and received more corrections up to the point when we graduated. I think by then people were tired of being corrected and for some when corrected now it now it digs into the core of their soul and they rebel. That is probably a poorly constructed sentence. hopefully you get the idea.
Pete
However, when we communicate with others we're usually sending a host of ancillary messages which aren't necessarily visible or audible: tone of voice, facial expression, body language, choice of words etc. Sometimes those messages can be unclear, or misconstrued by the recipient. If we factor in the confusion resulting from the use of incorrect or ambiguous words, or the absence/misuse of punctuation, then we're just making communication harder - or sometimes impossible.My take on the subject is not so much that people don't like to be corrected but more that they don't know the difference between "ignorant" and "stupid". We're all ignorant but only the stupid confuse the two, or don't welcome the opportunity to reduce their ignorance a little.
As for those who feel that getting the message across is the only thing that matters, while it's true that a good surgeon might well be able to accomplish wonders with a blunt cleaver, in the absence of a scalpel, I'd certainly prefer that he did it on someone else....
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Pedantry when commenting on newspaper (or any media) articles is annoying and most people who post regularly will mention spelling or syntax errors only if they actually alter the meaning of what was written. Some people of course actually enjoy doing it, it makes them feel superior.
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The trouble is that there just isn't a fixed set of rules for what is 'correct'. Language is a living, evolving thing and the 'same' language (e.g. English) is used in a host of subtly different ways by different groups. Some of these groups are more inclined than others to insist that what they do is correct and what others do should be corrected. A lot of what we think of as 'the' rules of English grammar are either carry-overs from Latin or made up by 18th century 'scholars' who wanted to stop what they saw as the corruption of the language. Noone argues that Chaucerian or Shakespearian English is more 'correct' than today's but some have ALWAYS insisted that the language standards of about 50 years back were 'better'. Remember Churchill's reply when told that sentences should not end with a preposition (another made up rule) - 'That is something up with which I will not put!'
jim1950
Established Member
grammar, what a load of ball larks
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Yes, but it pays to know the rules so you know when it's OK to break them. Illiterate job applications, for one, don't tend to get you far. The rules don't change a quickly as the meaning of words does.
In a room full of superior people who is the top dog ?
Try watching a foreign film on netflix with subtitles the lips and facial expressions say one thing the voice overs say another and the subtitles say something else
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
er....what HAD been written?
Feeling superior now!
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