Gluing Plastics

[custard]

I'm trying to use a substitute ivory product called "Elforyn". I've used it before as a cylindrical plug in the centre of turned Rosewood drawer knobs and simply epoxied it in place. But now I'm trying to use it for some stringing/inlay and I'd prefer to use a water soluble adhesive like PVA, hide glue, or at a pinch even UF.

Trouble is I'm not getting much joy from the German manufacturers. There's a data sheet, but it doesn't give any advice on gluing

http://www.elforyn.de/media/pdf/a0/c9/8 ... ryn_ml.pdf

It appears though from the data sheet that Elforyn is some type of plastic/resin. Does anyone have any experience of gluing plastics that might be relevant for this job?

Thanks

 

[marcros]

i have used pu to glue plastics to brass and to wood, which works well. i would expect hide glue, or liquid hide glue to work.

 

[davem62]

Hi Custard
You could try giving these people a try http://www.glue-shop.com/ they are normally at the Harrogate show and are very knowledgeable people , always willing to help with advice
Regards David

Hi just found this on their site http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-glue ... e-81-p.asp

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I would use epoxy, is there a specific reason for not doing so?
Paddy

 

[custard]

I would use epoxy, is there a specific reason for not doing so?
Paddy

Squeeze out stains and horrible glue lines Paddy, epoxy is the worst for these two failings so I'd rather steer clear.

Thank you all for the tips.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I would say that there are no glues normally associated with wood to wood bonding that will work. I don't know that particular product, but that sort of thing is usually something like polyester, or acrylic. There is little or no water absorbsion so no water soluble glue is likely to work. I think your best bet is long setting cyanoacrylate glue, if epoxy is not an option. Or else you could pre- finish the wood before you apply the plastic using epoxy resin.

Mike.

 

[profchris]

For plastic binding and stringing on my ukuleles I've tried most of the candidates. The only ones which work reliably are acetone based (Duco, plastic model cement, etc) or the cheapest CA. The acetone ones are horribly sticky, and CA distorts the plastic unless you use it sparingly. I've settled on CA. My technique (?!) Is explained on page 4 of that thread.

making-a-ukulele-t100091-45.html

But in essence, seal well with shellac, fit the plastic in place, wick in as little CA as possible, scrape back to a good surface after 24 hours (to let the CA cure and any movement stop).

I know luthiers who can get hide or Titebond to work, but I can't.

 

[profchris]

Looked up the data sheet and your plastic reads like it's expensive and very tough. Ivoroid guitar binding is I think celluloid, and should be about £5 for a 5 ft strip, 6 x 1.5 mm. PM me if you need a source, usually cheapest (£2 or so) direct from China if you're not in a hurry.

 

[Roughcut]

It appears though from the data sheet that Elforyn is some type of plastic/resin. Does anyone have any experience of gluing plastics that might be relevant for this job?

Thanks

The manufacturers data sheet does seem vague.
Although I would suspect it's likely to be a fast cast polyurethane resin.
If it is then the standard method of application is to sand (key) the gluing surface prior to applying pva, pu or super glue.

 

[custard]

Thanks for the help. I'll try a test piece with CA. If that doesn't work out I'll go back to Holly or Sycamore stringing.

 

[Des333]

Hi Custard, I'm not too sure what you are trying to glue however I have tried gluing plastics many times with varying success. Firstly on the inlay and stringing I mainly use PVA wood glue, it dries clear and can be cleaned off with water, care should be taken to avoid the glue penetrating the inlay or the surface to be finished. I have recently tried gluing acrylic blocks and sheet, superglue will work but it can become brittle and turns opaque. 3M produce many adhesives for plastics but can be expensive and difficult to work with. On some inlays I have used Araldite which works well as a glue but if there are gaps in the inlay fit it will squeeze out and is difficult to remove and probably prevent any finish sealing the inlay. Hope this helps.

 

[beech1948]

Custard,

I have had success with a Loctite super glue aimed at ALL PLASTICS. It comes in two parts.....an activator which goes on first and sparingly and then the glue component on top. Sets quickly.

My use was for glueing plastic and leather. It worked well.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

have you tried something like a fusion polymer adhesive? There's various brands but it's essentially same product. I've been using it recently to stick back painted glass to laminated door and to stick stainless steel corner edging to Mr mdf and laminate. Goes off in about 30 minutes and nice strong bond

 

[iNewbie]

Thats an interesting material Custard.

I had a search online and the Elforyn.de shop when putting in 'Glue' in the search bar listed CA and Epoxy - theres a leather glue too. Never knew it costs so much!

http://www.elforyn.de/en/search?sSearch=glue

One other thing I spotted was its used for Piano Keys and other instrument uses and a technician mentions PVC-E glue in this article - see the Glue heading:

http://my.ptg.org/HigherLogic/System/Do ... d6beda4284

While this piece mentions PVC-E remains flexible and is difficult to remove from wood - this may be a good thing or bad thing...

http://www.raglandpiano.com/Pages-htm/Glue.htm

I'm not sure any of that makes you any the wiser!

 

[AndyT]

I've no idea if this would work for your plastic, but I used to read a blog by Stephen Shepherd which covered a lot of restoration techniques. According to him, you can glue non-porous items to wood with hide glue, if you rub some garlic on first. He says this works on metal, ivory, tortoiseshell and bone. Admittedly, most of those are organic in origin, but it could be worth doing some experiments!

More here: http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=91

If you go to the top of his site and search the blog for 'garlic' you will see examples of broken spinning wheels repaired this way.

 

[SteveF]

i wonder if a contact adhesive would work
either the stuff for edpm or for formica

Steve

 

[custard]

According to him, you can glue non-porous items to wood with hide glue, if you rub some garlic on first.

Great wrinkle but don't know how you'd explain the smell to clients! I'm not sure about his advice on gluing Rosewood, I've seen a fair few pieces that I know for a fact were meths wiped Rosewood that have survived hard use for many years.

 

[No skills]

If you haven't already tried then a gel superglue would be my first port of call, won't run off into the grain of the timber when your applying it unlike the average thin ca glue - there used to be a ca glue that had a rubbery element to it (for want of a better word), used the same as ca but set with a little give in it rather than stiff ca.

Fwiw

 

[No skills]

Or maybe worth a call to one of the suppliers of hot glue (glue gun) and see if there's anything they recommend.

 

[ED65]

I've no idea if this would work for your plastic, but I used to read a blog by Stephen Shepherd which covered a lot of restoration techniques. According to him, you can glue non-porous items to wood with hide glue, if you rub some garlic on first. He says this works on metal, ivory, tortoiseshell and bone.

Didn't expect I'd ever see that trick mentioned here! I had no idea it was used outside of artistic circles. This is an old trick, going back to around Da Vinci's day, and is still used by some oil painters to promote adhesion when a later layer is having trouble not beading up on a previous layer.